Bf 109 Vs. P-38

[wetrat]

38's are my favourite targets, especially the 'better' sticks in them I almost always turn with 38's if the guy in it is competent enough to survive more than a few seconds, and to do that, you need to work throttle and flaps; the 109's are much more forgiving than 38's at really low speeds. You don't really need to outfly the 38... it's such a big target, all you have to do is get it to cross your nose to land a 30.

If you like, I suppose I could show you what I do against 38's.


edit: all these guys saying that you're screwed in a low-speed turnfight couldn't be more wrong Yeah, if you're using nothing but flat turns you're fked, but if you know how to work angles, it's easy. I think the only guys I couldn't beat with relative ease at low speeds K4 vs. 38 are in my skwad... There are so many ways to get snapshots in a K4. Against something like a 38, it's almost unfair. So easy to hit.

[Shuffler]

Yes check the stats..... when you see me get slow and throw your flaps out... sounds like fun. I'll be in the 38!!

[KONG1]

Something not mentioned yet. At moderate to low speeds the 109 has a better roll rate and will do a wicked fast snap roll to the left.  If in trouble you can use the horizontal scissors and get him "out of synch" without getting way slow. This will give you the chance to reverse him or motor away using your acceleration. Still tough when the 38 pilot's experienced.

Also, when escaping from US planes don't slam the nose down into a dive. Dang things are great divers. Use gentle zero G pushovers and watch how fast your airspeed increases.

[EsX_Raptor]

Kong, what do you mean with pushovers?

[Krusty]

Nose down push, is what I got. Basically pushing the stick so you tilt over into a dive. I'm 90% sure that's what it means in this context.

[KONG1]

Push your stick forward and watch your G meter. Keep it a zero G.

[Stang]

Originally posted by wetrat
... There are so many ways to get snapshots in a K4. Against something like a 38, it's almost unfair. So easy to hit.

38 parts raining out of the skies due to taterz is a beautiful thing.

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by EsX_Raptor
Alright, I know my 109 can outrun and outclimb most of its enemies. But for some reason it seems as if the P-38 is the only plane I cant beat. It can catch up with me so quick, that I cant outrun it nor outclimb it. Ive tried spiral climbing but it just wont work. Ive tried out turning it with the same results. If I dive, I die. What else is there left to do?
I thought the P-38 was just another E fighter with poor turn rate and maneuverability. But when it is on my 6, it is as if a mig 21 was chasing me.
Anyone can help me with this?

Depending on your speed, the best way to shake one is with rolls.  If 38 is slow enough, then its bad roll rate at low speeds can be exploited!:aok


Mark

[JimBeam]

mark has a good point at slow speed 38's roll rate is something you can use againist it
P.S. JimBeam owns SkyRock:D

[Xasthur]

Dalgurak, if you're in a turn-fight with a 38, are you leaving the throttle up at full or high?

cutting the throttle will help you drastically if you're trying to turn inside a 38.

On the whole, 38s should pose no real threat at all, down low or up high, fast or slow.

Uglystik pwned me in a 38 a couple of weeks ago, but other than that I can't remember the last time a 38 got me.

Even if you come a across a pilot who is your equal or perhaps even better... with the armament on them, you can survive a mistake or two.

[Knite]

Originally posted by Engine
Can't the K4 simply dive away and outrun the fastest 38?

I would say outrun, yes.

However, in the immediate early stages of the dive, the 38 can pick up speed pretty quick with the dual props and heavier weight.

So the K4 can out accelerate overall, but in the "0-60" matchup, it's closer than you'd think.

[Xasthur]

If you desire to force an over-shoot on a P-38, the 109 is particularly adept at a certain manuever which involves chopping throttle, rolling left, using hard left rudder and full 'negative' elevator input (i.e push forward)

This results in a rapid loss of speed. If you slow the roll initially, the 38 may be stupid enough to try and roll with you, thinking you're just trying to turn and escape. Speeding the roll up when you see the 38 start to roll with you will then hopefully result in him losing site of you and over-shooting.

Of course, in this case it is desirable that the P-38 has a 'medium' E advantage, IE, he is gaining on you from high-6 or even just dead-6. Provided the 38 is not too slow or massively fast, you'll be able to roll out behind him, firewall the throttle and then lob a few 'taters' at him.

Failing the kill-shot, you should be at least able to evade his sight for a moment... just long enough to extend and escape or start again.

[Xasthur]

I just found a nice film which demonstrates this manuever.

-Youtube link-

^ watch from about 3:20 (the entire film is pretty good though) the actual manuever takes place at 3:38.

In this clip, the roll is to the right so perhaps try it both ways.

I've always done it to the left.

[Hoarach]

I being a 38 pilot will say the hardest part about 109s is that they can accelerate fast really quick.  Trying to get separation is near impossible and if 109 cant stay in the fight and decides to bug out it can outrun the 38.  Trying to outvert the 38 isnt a very good idea.  Horizontal turns the 38 and 109 are about equal.  The 109 however will perform better at higher speeds but when it gets slow I find the 38 to handle better.  The 109 does have a much better roll rate so its easier for the 109 to force an overshot.

In my perspective, however, the 109 vs 38 is a very even match up.

[Krusty]

I would think such a move is only a video game construct, and would be nearly impossible to duplicate in real life (especially 20 feet off the water).

It's basically an outside barrel roll, from the looks of that link, but your attacker would have to be VERY close for it to work. So close they'd shoot you before you were able to pull off the overshoot. At least in AH, that's how it goes (you pull it when they're too far they just reposition or follow it in this game)