Author Topic: Bf 109 Vs. P-38  (Read 3199 times)

Offline EsX_Raptor

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Bf 109 Vs. P-38
« on: May 15, 2007, 08:46:33 AM »
Alright, I know my 109 can outrun and outclimb most of its enemies. But for some reason it seems as if the P-38 is the only plane I cant beat. It can catch up with me so quick, that I cant outrun it nor outclimb it. Ive tried spiral climbing but it just wont work. Ive tried out turning it with the same results. If I dive, I die. What else is there left to do?
I thought the P-38 was just another E fighter with poor turn rate and maneuverability. But when it is on my 6, it is as if a mig 21 was chasing me.
Anyone can help me with this? :(

Offline JimBeam

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Bf 109 Vs. P-38
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2007, 09:00:59 AM »
your perception of the p38 in the right hands is all wrong... your only defense is to improve your SA and not let a 38 get your 6.. once they get saddled up they can be very difficult to shake
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Offline EsX_Raptor

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Bf 109 Vs. P-38
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2007, 09:05:28 AM »
But how come I dont have the same problem with other a/c? It seems that this often happens to me in the merge; I usually do an immelman, the 38 does one too and shoots me down right when Im upside down on the top, closing in fast on me. I see the 38 has an incredible zoom rate.

Offline JimBeam

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Bf 109 Vs. P-38
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2007, 09:16:30 AM »
the 109's and p38s in AH seem to be fairly evenly matched in my opinion sounds to me like you keep running into good p38 sticks they're just droping flaps and getting around on you.. which 109 do you fly?
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Offline Oldman731

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Bf 109 Vs. P-38
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2007, 09:16:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by EsX_Raptor
But how come I dont have the same problem with other a/c? It seems that this often happens to me in the merge; I usually do an immelman, the 38 does one too and shoots me down right when Im upside down on the top, closing in fast on me. I see the 38 has an incredible zoom rate.

38 turns better than your 109, probably (don't know which 109 you're in), climbs nearly as well, accelerates comparably, and has far superior low-speed handling qualities.

- oldman

Offline EsX_Raptor

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Bf 109 Vs. P-38
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2007, 09:18:57 AM »
I fly the K4.

Offline Engine

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Bf 109 Vs. P-38
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2007, 09:21:27 AM »
Can't the K4 simply dive away and outrun the fastest 38?

Offline Lusche

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Bf 109 Vs. P-38
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2007, 09:23:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by EsX_Raptor
I usually do an immelman, the 38 does one too and shoots me down right when Im upside down on the top, closing in fast on me. I see the 38 has an incredible zoom rate.


You are playing the 38's game. While the K4 has a much better sustained rate of climb, the P38 excels when going in the vertical during a dogfight. It has a very good zoom climb capacity and one of the best handling characteristics when going over the top.
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Offline JimBeam

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Bf 109 Vs. P-38
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2007, 09:25:17 AM »
you should be able to out pace a p38 at lower alts. in the k4 i wouldnt suggest trying to turn fighting them if you think they energy to go vrt with you
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Offline EsX_Raptor

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Bf 109 Vs. P-38
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2007, 09:39:01 AM »
*thinks*

Alright, every 109 is very stable at really slow speeds (using flaps to help) that could be an advantage. But now my question is, how good is a 38 at low speeds? I think this could probably work.

>x[ ... I just want to get my 30mm on it!

Offline Lusche

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Bf 109 Vs. P-38
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2007, 09:54:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by EsX_Raptor
*thinks*

Alright, every 109 is very stable at really slow speeds (using flaps to help) that could be an advantage. But now my question is, how good is a 38 at low speeds? I think this could probably work.

>x[ ... I just want to get my 30mm on it!


If the 38 has any competence and can suck you into a low speed flaps out turning contest, you are lost.

When engaging the P38, always keep speed and E up. 38 has better low speed handling, better performance going over top, much better flaps. Make him bleed his E. Always keep some distance. Don't do a immediate immelman. Rely on sustained climb, not zoom climb.
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Offline Platano

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Bf 109 Vs. P-38
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2007, 09:58:17 AM »
38's are easy if u dont let em get on your 6 to begin with...

There are soo many situational factors that can dictate How to beat a 38 in a 109... Some of which are:

Which 109 your in?
Which 38 is he in?
How high are you?
How high is he?
Wats your State of E?
Wats his state of E?

SOo many things that can affect the outcome of the fight. 109's and 38 IMO are soo evenly matched given equal cartoon pilots that these things must be taken into consideration.
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Offline Viking

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Bf 109 Vs. P-38
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2007, 10:02:33 AM »
109K has all the advantages against a P-38L. The 109 is much faster at all altitudes, accellerates much faster, climbs much better at all altitudes (+1000 fps at SL), and turns much better both with and without flaps. With equal E states and pilot skill the 109 should win every time. My guess is the pilot skills in question are not equal.

A few tips:

If the 38 dives on you, split-S underneath him (use trim if necessary to pull out). He will not be able to follow and make a shot. If he's a noob he might even compress and auger. Extend as much as possible between every split-S to equalize E. Once he has spent his E advantage start building your own E as described below.

If you are equal in alt and E, extend in a low-G zoom climb and use your superior climb to gain altitude on him, and use your superior speed to keep him at arm’s length. You can use the E advantage to either B&Znore him to death or spend the E on saddling up on him.

If you saddle up MIND YOUR SPEED. The P-38 slows down very quickly and you’ll overshoot if not careful. Just throttle back, full rudder, flaps out and kill him. If he forces an overshoot WEP climb above him at the highest angle of attack you dare.

ALWAYS use flaps in a turn fight.

If he is on your six and closing to guns range, NEVER climb. The 38 is much heavier and will out-zoom you. Instead make a rudder-assisted roll inverted and split-S away. Use trim if necessary.

Learn to trim manually. Consider trim to be your high speed flight controls.

Offline EsX_Raptor

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Bf 109 Vs. P-38
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2007, 10:43:32 AM »
Awesome response Viking :D:D

Ill take those tips and have them in mind whenever I engage another P-38. If somehow any other situations arise during the fight, Ill post them here for further help.

Thanks!

-Dalgurak

EDIT: Btw, I\'ll go check the stats for the 38

Offline Viking

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Bf 109 Vs. P-38
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2007, 10:54:57 AM »
Use DoK Gonzo's fighter comparison page:

http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php