John McCain Grows A Pair

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by rpm
As soon as my original question is answered (which came first BTW), I'll move forward and answer yours. We can run in circles like this all night if you like but it's rather pointless. Just admit all the phony baloney quotes have no basis in fact and we can discuss your strawman.

RPM, take those quotes up with checkers, I'm not discussing them with you, he is.

[rpm]

Originally posted by CHECKERS
"Nearly 1 Million sex crimes were committed by illegals...between January 1999 and April 2006"
---Deborah Schurman-Kauflin

"Hispanic immigrants...are involved in a disproportionate number of pedestrian and bicyclist crashes.
The role of alcohol (in these cases) should be addressed."
---Federal Highway Administration

"Congressman Steve King (R-Iowa) stated on July 1, 2006, 'Illegal aliens kill 25 Americans daily, seven days a week, 365 days a year...that adds up to 9,125 dead Americans every year.' This is a 9/11 every four months and more Americans than we've lost fighting terrorist in the Gulf and Iraqi Wars combined."
---Mary Williams, Director of Protect Our Citizens

"Thousands of Americans die at the hands of illegal aliens every year. Our state and local governments serve as the front line of defense against terrorism and criminal aliens. Every murder, every rape, every violent gang crime committed against Americans by illegal aliens is an utterly preventable crime. If we better enforce our immigration laws to keep criminals out, we will save lives. We must use the law enforcement resources we have, at every level, to enforce our laws, with the end result of making our nation a safer place for our grandchildren to grow up in."
---Congressman Steve King (IA)....

 Bob/CHECKERS

Hmm, read the whole report and didn't see Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, Mary Williams or Congressman King listed anywhere. But that's OK.

THIS would have been a better source to reference. I've been sitting on it since I asked the question. (Never ask a question in a debate that you don't already know the answer to.)

There were 1.3 million adults in prison in 2001. Of that 1.3 million,  55,322 were used for the GAO alien study. That's 4% of the total prison population. Of that 4%, 68% were in prison only on immigration charges, 1% or less were incarcerated for violent crimes. 13 for homicide, 28 for robbery. That's using your numbers, 41 people. Forty-one people. I don't see 13 illegal aliens killing thousands and thousands of Americans. I'm pretty sure that would have made FOX news.

[rpm]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
tell me how this matters?  If Americans kill more Americans that illegals do, does that make it ok that illegals kill over 9000 per year?

The point is, 9000 people per year would not be killed if we merely enforced existing laws.  Can you admit that this would be a good thing?

Now that CHECKERS has been answered, I'll move forward to Steve's burning question...

I can admit it would be a good thing, if it was true that illegals kill thousands of Americans every year, but it's not true.

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by rpm
...

I can admit it would be a good thing, if it was true that illegals kill thousands of Americans every year, but it's not true.

Source?

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

In the last 6 months alone, illegal aliens driving drunk, without a license, with previous arrests (they won't deport them or keep them in jail) have killed more than a dozen people within a 50 mile radius of my house. Now, that's drunk illegal aliens who do not INTEND to kill others. I haven't had time to go search for the exact numbers, but illegals have been credited with about 2 dozen murders in this general area in the last 6-7 months. But Hell, that's just around my little area, I'm sure illegal aliens don't kill people, accidentally or on purpose, anywhere else in the country.

[rpm]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Source?

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm
Same one I quoted earlier.

[bj229r]

Ahem.

http://www.sierratimes.com/06/06/23/152_163_101_8_68330.htm

At the same time, after a steady annual reduction in crime, the annual FBI Uniform Crime Report reveals a slow but sure yearly increase in crime, especially violent crime. Some criminologists attribute the rise in crime to illegal aliens who come into the United States with a criminal background.

Many illegal aliens in the United States have been arrested and incarcerated in federal and state prisons and local jails, adding to already overcrowded prisons and jails. The US Justice Department issued a report on criminal aliens who are incarcerated in federal and state prisons and local jails.

The report contained information on the number of criminal aliens incarcerated, their country of citizenship or country of birth, and the cost to incarcerate them. Congress also requested that the Government Accounting Office provide information on the criminal history of aliens incarcerated in federal and state prisons or local jails who had entered the country illegally.

In the population study of a sample of 55,322 illegal aliens, researchers found that they were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty-eight percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about 18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after 1990.

They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien. One arrest incident may include multiple offenses, a fact that explains why there are nearly one and half times more offenses than arrests. Almost all of these illegal aliens were arrested for more than 1 offense. Slightly more than half of the 55,322 illegal aliens had between 2 and 10 offenses.

About 45 percent of all offenses were drug or immigration offenses. About 15 percent were property-related offenses such as burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and property damage. About 12 percent were for violent offenses such as murder, robbery, assault, and sex-related crimes.

[rpm]

Ahem, what? That's this report . Where does it say 1000's of Americans were killed by illegals every year?

[bj229r]

I could give a damn whether they are committing murder or just stealing credit card numbers. WHY are you defending it?

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by rpm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm
Same one I quoted earlier.

All I got out of this was that, six years ago, 8.4 % of the prison population was hispanic.  Could you please save me from embarrassment and point out where it says illegals aren't killing more than 1000 Americans per year?

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by rpm
Ahem, what? That's this report . Where does it say 1000's of Americans were killed by illegals every year?

Well, what do you have to say about this?

• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

[rpm]

I am not defending illegal aliens. I am saying your facts are crap, come up with a legitimate point. If you say "throw them out because I don't like the color of their skin", there's no counter to that except for racism and that's your perogative. If you say "enforce the laws because they are the law", I'd have to agree 100%.

If you say "throw them out because they are killing 1000's of Americans", I'd have to say you are full of it and ask for facts to back that up. There's a ton of illegals living in Texas and I have'nt heard about these 1000's of killings they are doing every year.

Steve, it doesn't say that they ARE. Nothing you have come up with says that they are except for some random quote from a guy from Iowa, the capitol of mass murderer illegal aliens. (BTW, that last bit was sarcasm)

[rpm]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Well, what do you have to say about this?

How far back do those outstanding warrants go?

[Gunthr]

This may help make the issue a little more concrete.  I don't know how often illegals commit crimes like homicide, but i hear about it fairly regularly... the actual numbers should be available somewhere.
 






REQUEST FOR STATEWIDE REBROADCAST
LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS KILLED IN THE LINE OF DUTY-2007
PART 1 OF 1
KENOSHA COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, WISCONSIN,
ADVISED VETERAN DEPUTY SHERIFF, AGED 48, WITH 18 YEARS'
LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERIENCE, WAS FATALLY SHOT AT ABOUT
11:37 P.M. ON 05/16/2007.  DEPUTY ATTEMPTED TO INITIATE
TRAFFIC STOP ON SUSPECTED INTOXICATED MOTORIST.  DEPUTY
BEGAN TO PURSUE SUBJECT, WHILE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN -
PARKSIDE POLICE DEPARTMENT (UWPPD) OFFICER WAS
ATTEMPTING TO JOIN PURSUIT AND ACT AS COVER FOR DEPUTY.
AFTER APPROXIMATELY 15 BLOCK LOW-SPEED PURSUIT OF
SUBJECT VEHICLE, WHICH ENDED IN CUL-DE-SAC, DEPUTY
EXITED PATROL VEHICLE AND STARTED TO APPROACH SUBJECT.
(UWPPD OFFICER WAS THEN ATTEMPTING TO OBTAIN ADDRESS OF
TRAFFIC STOP.)  EXACT DETAILS OF OCCURRENCE ARE
CURRENTLY UNKNOWN; HOWEVER, IT IS BELIEVED THAT WHILE
DEPUTY WAS APPROACHING SUBJECT VEHICLE, SUBJECT EXITED
AND BEGAN FIRING .380 CALIBER HANDGUN TOWARDS DEPUTY,
FATALLY WOUNDING HIM IN FACE.  VICTIM DEPUTY RETURNED
FIRE. AFTER BRIEF GUNFIGHT BETWEEN VICTIM DEPUTY AND
SUBJECT WAS OVER, UWPPD OFFICER FIRED AT FLEEING
SUBJECT.  THREE HOURS LATER, SUBJECT WAS ULTIMATELY
ARRESTED SEVERAL BLOCKS AWAY FROM INCIDENT.  KENOSHA
COUNTY TACTICAL RESPONSE TEAM LOCATED SUBJECT HIDING
BETWEEN TWO CARS.  SUBJECT WAS APPREHENDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT AND WAS FOUND TO BE IN POSSESSION OF WEAPON
USED AGAINST VICTIM DEPUTY.  SUBJECT WILL BE CHARGED
WITH FIRST DEGREE INTENTIONAL HOMICIDE.  ADDITIONALLY,
SUBJECT IS BEING HELD ON DETAINER FROM U.S. BUREAU OF
IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT FOR BEING IN U.S.
ILLEGALLY.

[rpm]

That guy deserves to be executed. Where's he from?

Gunthr, the actual numbers are in both the reports we have referenced.