Author Topic: Rank is meaningless, but....  (Read 5182 times)

Offline Toad

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: scores
« Reply #90 on: May 24, 2007, 01:12:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Scca
You won't get it, don't hold your breath.  Many adversarial people use anonymity to keep from being responsible for their actions.


I'm not absolutely certain but I'm pretty sure SteveBailey flys under a handle that is really deceptive.

He goes by Steve in the game and he's currently ranked 27 in fighters.

I think that's your guy.

He used to be a cherry picking weiner back in the old days but then he discovered the joys of close combat. ;)

How ya doin' Steve? You ought to visit the MW some and try the P-51B in there. Some great fights lately.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Scca

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Rank is meaningless, but....
« Reply #91 on: May 24, 2007, 01:43:51 PM »
<--- smooches Masherbrum

Thanks for clearing that up for all of us..  You are truly the jewel of the boards.  
(Didn't even have to "Search" to know that)

Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
He gave it out in one of the posts, and his "handle" was already discussed when he came back.   Wake up and use "Search" before you post stuff like this.
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Offline Husky01

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Rank is meaningless, but....
« Reply #92 on: May 24, 2007, 01:51:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Top Score means NOTHING.   This is my whole point, but other's (including yourself seem to think it) don't seem to grasp on to the concept.



yes Ranks means nada just as karaya has said.

Look at your top 10 pilots this tour and that says it all.

Shawk - Good stick if I had a choice I wouldnt want to fight him

Lusche -  Fight him all day long

pacerr  - If I could catch him I would fight him :) hehe jk Pacerr

Zip5389 - Would fight him all day long

AXER -Would fight him all day long

Dextur - Would fight him all day long

LYNX  - Would fight him all day long

Wreaper - Would fight him all day long
 
Nilsen -Wouldnt want to fight him if possible but wouldnt run from him, so would fight him all day long
 
AKDogg - This is the only one I fear I would completely run the other way screaming on vox for help and begging on 200 for him to let me go :)
BearKats
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Offline Nilsen

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Rank is meaningless, but....
« Reply #93 on: May 24, 2007, 02:17:48 PM »
Dunno what i should read into that Husky but :)

Offline ink

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« Reply #94 on: May 24, 2007, 02:24:22 PM »
tell ya what, no matter how crappy my day has been i know i will feel better after going to AH BB you guys crack me up,:lol :rofl

Offline Lusche

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« Reply #95 on: May 24, 2007, 02:27:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Husky01


Lusche -  Fight him all day long

 



And I would ho you just for laughs & giggles :D
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Offline Scca

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« Reply #96 on: May 24, 2007, 02:45:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
And I would ho you just for laughs & giggles :D

Na, you'd run ;)
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Offline Lusche

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« Reply #97 on: May 24, 2007, 02:49:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Scca
Na, you'd run ;)


Yes, but only after my failed Ho attempt...
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Offline Sloehand

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Rank is meaningless, but....
« Reply #98 on: May 24, 2007, 03:24:45 PM »
Pilot score is like any other statistic, put in a certain context, they can say anything you want them to.  It depends on your ultimate purpose and use, and the criteria by which they are judged, that give them any value (accurate or not, good or bad).

As a pure marker of who's better than who, score is pretty lame because the conditions for accumulating the statistic is so varied.  You have to know what a statistic can and cannot support based on what and how it is recorded.

Alot of what we are talking about here is pilot respect.  Anyone who reaches <500 score in most any catagory IMO is probably pretty good in that skill.  Under 200 they are always difficult and dangerous.  But while I can respect that there is significant flying skill involved, it's respect for the player's gamestyle that is important to me.  At the same time, always remembering that it's their $15 to spend any way they like.  It's just, if you play lame, IMO you are lame.  All of which is really only important to me.  lol

Three pilots who all have excellent skills, but three different styles of play (in my experience) and three different levels of pilot respect.

SHawk, Lynx, Paccer

Lynx -
Had many dogfights, bomber intercepts, GV's fights, etc with him.  Always one to watch out for, and very satisfying on the few times I win.
Have much respect as he does most everything at any time.  BnZ, TnB, cherry pick, vulch, save a friendly, defend a base against odds, complete dangerous missions.  He plays the whole game, the whole time.

SHawk -
Most of my fights, but not all, have been at extreme disadvantage for me.  He's very opportunistic, a touch too much for my taste.  However, I have had a few even dogfights and he mostly kicks my butt.
I respect him as he can and sometimes does play the whole game, but IMO plays it a little too safe sometimes, seemingly for score (could be wrong, but does appear that way).

Paccer -
I'm sure I must have had at least one dogfight with him, but I can't remember when.  Don't remember ever seeing him in anything, but a Tempest or LA7.  Totally opportunistic 'safety' player going simply for ego score.  IMO will hang friendly out as bait, BnZ cherry picks other's kills, runs for cover when he sees 1.05 enemy planes in the neighborhood.  
He's good at what he does, no doubt, but he does so little.  He is otherwise a non-entity to me in the game.  He does nothing and means nothing.  My dog has fleas that are more annoying.  No respect for him at all, and of course, he could care less, which in and of itself, makes my point about him.

All in all, it's very interesting how players have differing experiences and opinions of other players.  A true consenus would be hard to reach.  In the end, it all comes down to our own perception and values.  No one is totally right, there are many 'truths' out there.

As for my gamestyle, I'm generally a team player, but I've finally learned not to get vulched 17 times defending a base.  I'll still try to help break a CAP until I see it's pointless.  I always look for advantage over an opponent, but don't climb to 18K over my base in a Tempest then go cruising for outnumbered loners.  I'll take on 3 v. 1 if the mission is worth it, like saving a friend, but I do enjoy fighter sweeps and hunter tactics with 1,2 or 3 squaddies.  

On a hotly contested base defense, I'll shoot at any plane that gets in front of me or dive in on a defensive bandit for a cherry pick (telling friendlies first).  Otherwise, I'll ask a friendly engaged in a 1 v. 1 if he needs assistance, and wait out the result if he says no.

I will do anything to complete my mission, i.e. face certain ack-death to take out ord if needed, or run the other way to get to my target.  Sometimes, just for the fun of it, I'll get in 'real WWII mode' meaning I'll work the tactical situation as if it were a real death scenario -- run, climb, dive, use any and all of my plane's advantages to turn a defensive posture into an offensive one, then make the kill.

As for my score, it gives me a rough indicator if I'm doing well or in a slump, tells me if I'm improving over last tour or not.   Yes, I'm proud my score has improved and is in the upper percentiles more often than not (for fighters nowhere near the above mention pilots), but it doesn't rule my gameplay.  I got my score while doing everything, all the time.  

I don't want be #1 (though I wouldn't complain, of course, lol), I just want to be respected (if I ever am) as a worthy opponent.
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Offline Spikes

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Rank is meaningless, but....
« Reply #99 on: May 24, 2007, 06:26:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stang
Who cares how many kills you have?  I wouldn't mind if you didn't get any recognition of kills at the end of a run.



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Offline Zazen13

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Rank is meaningless, but....
« Reply #100 on: May 24, 2007, 07:22:59 PM »
First Off, people need to stop confusing Total Rank with Fighter Rank. There's a sort function for Fighter rank on the score page...Everytime a discussion commences on Fighter Rank issues people start talking about total rank. Alot of the people in the top 50 in overall rank don't even make the top 200 in fighter rank, conversely alot of the top 50 in fighters don't do anything but fighter so their overall rank is in the 1000+s. So, it's like comparing apples to oranges..

Obtaining a top 50 fighter rank requires a balance of the 5 factors that go into it (Hit %, K/T, K/S, K/D and points). Some of those factors are almost mutually exclusive therefore tricky to keep balanced. Also the sub-stats that comprise fighter rank reach a point of diminishing returns once you get within the higher echelons of them to varying degrees, relatively speaking. By that I mean getting better and better in that sub-stat yields far less difference in terms of your sub-stat and overall fighter rank after a certain point.

As an example I will use a current snap shot and my squadmate Kappa's  stats and my own because it is a perfect illustration of what I'm talking about. It is a fantastic example of why flying purely for K/D is not about rank, it's about role-playing, the personal satisfaction of being a survivalist and contempt for giving up your pelt, it has absolutely nothing to do with rank and even makes it worse to a degree as I will explain.


Zazen (Fighter Rank 3)

Kills per Death + 1 67.67      (1)
Kills per Sortie 5.34               (5)
Kills per Hr of Flight 10.22     (106)
Kills Hit Percentage 18.97     (17)
Kill Points 50418.95               (43)


Kappa (Fighter Rank 2)

Kills per Death + 1 9.95        (26)
Kills per Sortie 4.62              (11)
Kills per Hr of Flight 14.04    (36)
Kills Hit Percentage 14.63    (47)
Kill Points 58760.74             (26)


Notice Kappa outranks me with a K/D below 10 to 1 even though I out gun him significantly and kill more per sortie and have a whopping K/D of 67.67 to 1,  a factor of 6+ times better than Kappa's. Notice how little difference that HUGE difference in K/D makes in terms of sub-stat and fighter rank. The price I pay, in terms of rank, for that pristine K/D and all those RTB flights is an inferior K/T. Notice the relatively large sub-stat and fighter rank difference garnered by the  relatively small difference in the K/T sub-stat between us, he kills just 1 more plane every 15 minutes than I do. Now if I were playing for rank and not just the personal satisfaction of living it would behoove me, after solidifying a 10 to 1 k/d or so, to forego survivalism and solely concentrate on killing as quickly as possible even if it meant dieing in the process, actually, especially if it meant dieing in the process as dieing is actually a huge time saver...

I suggest anyone who thinks flying extremely timidly improves your fighter rank is completely delusional. Two things happen if you fly overly timid. 1) You get very few kills 2) The few kills you get, you may land, but it takes you a LONG time, screwing your K/T and totally destroying your fighter rank.

The only way to reconcile flying to live and maintaining a decent K/T is to fight aggressively enough to kill quickly while maintaining enough SA not to get ganged, HO'd, rammed or run down by the horde. The key is knowing when to press the attack and when to consolidate your position, regain your altitude and SA, in short, as close to perfect decision making ability as possible. Furthermore, while flying in a horde may be good for your K/D it is incredibly bad for your K/T. Having to compete with 50 friendlies for a kill is not conducive to good K/T at all I promise you...

I'm throwing down the gauntlet here, any of you who say a top 50 fighter rank is easy to attain with a great  K/D by flying timidly ..show me, do it, get a 50 to 1 + K/D just one camp without vulching or flying 262's and still get a reasonable amount of kills per hour (8+). With Ho'ing, ramming and a LW MA filled to the brim with people more than happy to give their virtual cartoon plane life in a frenzied, suicidal attempt to end your hop, it isn't as easy as you may think, I promise you...Give it a try......I dare ya ;)

Zazen
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 08:32:55 PM by Zazen13 »
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Offline killnu

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« Reply #101 on: May 24, 2007, 09:50:59 PM »
awwww  you didnt use me in your comparison?  Of course...I am pretty timid.  I must be.
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Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #102 on: May 24, 2007, 10:03:13 PM »
The day I give a damn about my "Fighter Rank" is the day I hang it up.    Again, I agree with Stang.
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Offline Zazen13

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« Reply #103 on: May 24, 2007, 10:46:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by killnu
awwww  you didnt use me in your comparison?  Of course...I am pretty timid.  I must be.


Hehe, I used Kappa because there was a more stark comparison which made for better illustration of my point. You and I have roughly the same hit % and you have alot more points than either Kappa or I. Has nothing to do with timidity I assure ya, buddy :)


Zazen
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 10:51:44 PM by Zazen13 »
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Offline Zazen13

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« Reply #104 on: May 24, 2007, 10:58:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
The day I give a damn about my "Fighter Rank" is the day I hang it up.    


Either do I , I just care about surviving and whipping arse in the process. The point of my little illustration was to refute the position that flying 35k and being incredibly timid equates to some kind of magically blessed K/D endowed path to Fighter-Rank-potato-Dom. In truth the exact opposite is true. The best possible way to get a top fighter rank is to get to the fight as fast as possible kill 5-10 and die while retaining good marksmanship during the process. That's part of the reason so many Lgay7 tards with no discernable fighter talents appear in the top 50 in Fighters. Their plane is suited to that mode of play. So, even an average stick in an Lgay7 can produce the right ratio of sub-stats to eek out a spot if they log enough hours.

Anyone sitting at 35k running from everything and not getting down and dirty on a regular basis where the food is will not appear in the top 10 on the Fighter chart in this life-time, I promise you...Unless of course they vulch their bellybutton off or farm buff kills with a 262 regularly...

Zazen
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 11:16:56 PM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc