Me163 and Me 262, who can do it?

[PanzerIV]

im gonna go, might write more tommorow, keep on discussing, i live on east coast and 12:08 means you better go sleep or wake up at lunch time!

[trax1]

Well I'm not sure about a plant, but air pressure doesn't effect the density of it, or if it does its a small change, but temp will change air density.  Which is why temp effects the speed of sound, not air pressure.

[PanzerIV]

before i go , helium isnt a plant or planet

[trax1]

Originally posted by PanzerIV
before i go , helium isnt a plant or planet

huh

[oldtard]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
Even then it will vary with moisture and temperature.  Not only is it impossible to say "speed of sound is X at all altitudes," it's not even possible to say "speed of sound is X at Y altitude."  Now if you try, "speed of sound is X at Y altitude with Z humidity and V temperature," then you're starting to make more sense.  And there are still other factors, most likely.

Oldtard, science doesn't say that a bumblebee can't fly.  Bad science does.  It's the same sort of bad science which says that mass and energy can come out of nothing, or that the earth is flat.

LMAO BS science says a Bumbble bee should not be able to fly with its weight to wing ratio according to science it should not be able to fly but then again they said a helo couldnt do a loop

[Brooke]

Speed of sound in an ideal gas depends on temperature, not pressure or density.  So, you could take a container of ideal gas of a given temperature, measure the speed of sound through it, pump up the container to a higher pressure, get the temperature back to where it was (but the pressure is still now higher), and the speed of sound would be the same.

Our atmosphere isn't a perfectly ideal gas, so there is a slight variance with pressure and density, but it is small; there is also some variance with humidity.  However, the biggest effect is temperature.

The reason the speed of sound generally goes down with altitude is mainly because the temperature goes down with altitude.  However, speed of sound at sea level in Antarctica in its winter could thus be the same as speed of sound at higher altitude over the Sahara in its summer.

For more detailed info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound

[Brooke]

The F-86 pilot who is purported to have broken the sound barrier before Yeager is George Welch, the pilot who shot down at least 4 Japanese planes during Pearl Harbor.

A very interesting read here -- The Amazing George Welch:

http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Welch1.html

[MORAY37]

LOL...this thread is funny.  Nice to know we have a supersonic 163 Club on here.  Now to end the bickering....it's amazing the small grasp that folks have on really basic science... except for a few of the more enlightened of the bunch...Not surprised we americans have problems on understanding global warming and evolution.

Speed of Sound....an overview...

Disturbances are transmitted through a gas as a result of collisions between the randomly moving molecules in the gas. The transmission of a small disturbance through a gas is an isentropic process. The conditions in the gas are the same before and after the disturbance passes through. Because the speed of transmission depends on molecular collisions, the speed of sound depends on the state of the gas. The speed of sound is a constant within a given gas and the value of the constant depends on the type of gas (air, pure oxygen, carbon dioxide, etc.) and the temperature of the gas.  Loosely translated....

55,000 ft                   660mph
         
                           






0 ft @ STP              761 MPH
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Underwater....  3,300 MPH


Those F-86 jocks are reconized as probably accomplishing the transonic threshhold, albeit for a very short length of time.. (hard to justify staying  in that dive when your ride acts like a tourrette's baby)  Yeager is identified as the first person recognized by SCIENTIFICALLY measured experiment to break it.  Therefore... He is the first to do it, and have the measurements taken at all altitudes to prove it, and that's why he's the first.

more than my two cents but c' est l' vie...

[Benny Moore]

Originally posted by oldtard
LMAO BS science says a Bumbble bee should not be able to fly with its weight to wing ratio according to science it should not be able to fly but then again they said a helo couldnt do a loop

If you mean "B.S. science says," then you are correct; it's "B.S. science," for sure.  If, on the other hand, you meant, "B.S.!  Science says," then you're wrong.  Again, science does not say that a bumblebee can't fly.  A few bad scientists have.  Only an aerodynamic simpleton tries to calculate something using only wingloading.  Wingloading's just one factor in a large and complicated equation.  If any "scientist" tries to calculate something about an aircraft using only wingloading, he's a bad scientist.  If a "scientist" calculates something that's proven wrong (like a bumblebee being unable to fly), then his calculations are missing factors.  It doesn't at all mean that science itself is lacking.

Your claim that science is "B.S." because some scientists used incomplete calculations to arrive at the wrong concusion is very much like what happens when a noob in a Zeke gets out-turned by my P-38.  He cries, "B.S.!  There's no way that P-38 can turn with my Zeke.  This game is crap!"  He's blaming the game for his mistakes, when in actuality the game is correct and it's his maneuvering ability which stinks.

[Bosco123]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
No, it's not.  It varies hugely based on how warm it is and how high it is.

Your knowledge of aerodynamics is as poor as your spelling.  I'm not an expert on the subject by any means, but I do know that you are also wrong when you claim that "any aircraft can exceed the speed of sound with enough height."  No matter how low the indicated airspeed is, if the shape of the airplane is not right, then travelling faster than the speed of sound will cause shockwaves that will break up the airplane ... or something like that.  The only exception would be in an airless environment, and not just "any airplane" can travel in that.

So please stop posting absolute bunk.  Next you'll be saying that indicated airspeed is always true.

in AH2 there are only a few airplanes that could not exceed mach one. and here is information national areonutics and space administartion themselves and if you do not no who that is because of your intellagence that is nasa my poor spelling is because not a great typer:
As an aircraft moves through the air, the air molecules near the aircraft are disturbed and move around the aircraft. If the aircraft passes at a low speed, typically less than 250 mph, the density of the air remains constant. But for higher speeds, some of the energy of the aircraft goes into compressing the air and locally changing the density of the air. This compressibility effect alters the amount of resulting force on the aircraft. The effect becomes more important as speed increases. Near and beyond the speed of sound, about 330 m/s or 760 mph, small disturbances in the flow are transmitted to other locations isentropically or with constant entropy. But a sharp disturbance generates a shock wave that affects both the lift and drag of an aircraft.

The ratio of the speed of the aircraft to the speed of sound in the gas determines the magnitude of many of the compressibility effects. Because of the importance of this speed ratio, aerodynamicists have designated it with a special parameter called the Mach number in honor of Ernst Mach, a late 19th century physicist who studied gas dynamics. The Mach number M allows us to define flight regimes in which compressibility effects vary.

I am sorry for my calculations but i do not make fun of you so don' make fun of me people that goes for all!!!
:mad

[Benny Moore]

Whatever.  Have fun wallowing in your ignorance.  I give up.

[Bosco123]

i will make a correction on what planes will and will not reach mach 1 i belive almost all fighter planes can reach mach 1 and if you want me to prove it then give me the go

[Xargos]

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/sound.html

[ForrestS]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
P.S.  If it makes you feel better, I made a fool out of myself on a very similar subject when I was new to this stuff.  I failed to know that indicated airspeed can be drastically different than true.  It is important to recognize when you don't know your subject matter well, and be quiet until you do.

 





 


I bet ur puny P38 can't do that:O

[Larry]

Originally posted by ForrestS
 

Stargate!