Author Topic: The dead horse named collision  (Read 2961 times)

Offline E25280

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3475
      • http://125thspartanforums.com
Re: Re: The dead horse named collision
« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2007, 09:18:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CAP1
so, let me get this straight...........i, completley defy the laws of physics, and drive my aircraft upwards into a diving aircraft? or better......i have reverse? i can actually go from 350mph foward to fly backwards into a higher aircraft? wow!! i have some serious skills, huh? its ashame they don't help me kill more though(couldn't hit water if i fell outta a boat)

seriously.....i've heard this EVERYWHERE::::if you get the WHITE collision message, then you were hit, and recieve NO damage(wrong from my experience) if you get the ORANGE message, then you DID the hitting, and will suffer damage(corect, at least for me). i've been hit at angles that were impossible for me to have contributed to with the exception of being in the fight, and went in with very large important parts missing, i've done the hitting...quite by accident.....and suffered the same fate. i don't know how it REALLY works, but it DOES NOT work like everyone's telling me/us.

:noid :noid
OK -- first thing you have to get over is that the collision model is a no-fault system.  What I mean by that is that there is no "blame" to be assigned in a collision -- either your computer detects that your plane and an object occupy the same space (in which case a collision has occurred) or it does not detect it.

If observed from the outside on your computer, the only thing that matters is if your plane and another plane intersect.  It does NOT matter if his nose hits your plane, or your nose hits his, or whatever.  THERE IS NO BLAME.  It simply is, or is not, a collision.  No one is the "hitter" and no one is the "hittee", only a "hit has occurred."

If your PC detects a collision regardless of whether or not you actually see it coming, you will get an orange message that says "you have collided".  You will then take damage.

If you get the white message "so-and-so collided with you", then you DID NOT take damage UNLESS you simultaneously see the orange text.  In that case, it was a rarity where both your PC and his detected a collision at the same moment (usually only occurs during HOs).

Back to the "Hint":  If you get a white message that so-and-so collided with you, and you did NOT get a simultaneous orange message -- then any damage that appears to coincide with the white message is due to weapons fire - plain and simple.  If he was close enough to smack into you, he was also close enough that tapping his trigger is bound to hit your airframe with catastrophic force.

Accept the fact that your PC may detect a plane fly into yours when that is not what occurred on the other guy's PC.  It happens.
Brauno in a past life, followed by LTARget
SWtarget in current incarnation
Captain and Communications Officer~125th Spartans

"Proudly drawing fire so that my brothers may pass unharmed."

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
The dead horse named collision
« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2007, 09:18:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Serenity
It seems to be that I lost a wing, or emponage, but he goes on just fine, and appears to be maneuvering just fine. I say 'appears' because, as you said, such tiny damage is hard to spot at speed. But if I hit him hard enough to lose a wing, wouldnt he be missing something equally large?



Once again, due to lag no. He may have just touched a wing tip on his front end.
On yours, your whole wing passed through him.




Bronk
See Rule #4

Offline E25280

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3475
      • http://125thspartanforums.com
The dead horse named collision
« Reply #47 on: May 30, 2007, 09:36:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Serenity
It seems to be that I lost a wing, or emponage, but he goes on just fine, and appears to be maneuvering just fine. I say 'appears' because, as you said, such tiny damage is hard to spot at speed. But if I hit him hard enough to lose a wing, wouldnt he be missing something equally large?
The same positional shift that can make only one of the two planes experience a collision can make a simultaneous collision have vastly different outcomes.

Say you and I are in a head-on situation.  At the last second, I pull up, but you blindly press forward in a straight line.  Due to internet lag, there is a fraction of a second where I have pulled up on my PC but your PC does not yet detect that, and thus I still appear to be flying straight.

On your PC/front end, since I have not yet pulled up.  You PC sees my plane smack your plane prop-to-prop, and thus your plane instantly disintegrates.

On my PC/front end, I was pulling up, but just a smidge too late.  My tailwheel clips your horizontal stabilizer as I pass over your aircraft.  I lose a tailwheel.

You float down in your chute saying "Dang, I got the orange message and the white message -- we should both have taken damage, but he is flying off unscathed!  The bastage!!"

I am flying off looking back at your smoking wreckage saying "Wow, that was close.  I better remember that tailwheel is gone when I land."

< >>
« Last Edit: May 30, 2007, 09:38:15 PM by E25280 »
Brauno in a past life, followed by LTARget
SWtarget in current incarnation
Captain and Communications Officer~125th Spartans

"Proudly drawing fire so that my brothers may pass unharmed."

Offline oldtard

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 128
The dead horse named collision
« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2007, 12:11:30 AM »
ok i am not getting this,but this is my understanding of this so far(if i am wrong PLEASE forgive me I am not the sharpest knife in the kitchen)
#1 XXXXX collided with you (sometimes i die sometimes I dont).
#2 you have Collided with XXXXXX ( sometimes I die sometimes i dont)
Now i have heard it was lag ect,ect but I see a flaw with this.
Even if i have a cable connection and you are on dial up,How does this work,even if i see the collision 5-50 secs before the guy on dial-up its still a collison.
This can be compared to a drunk and a sober person heading down the highway head-on (drunk person is dial up,sober person is cable connection)
SOBER person (cable connection) jesus your all over the place
DRUNK person (dial connection)  hell no i am not HTC said connection dont matter.
SOBER person BS your warping in 90% angle
DRUNK BS HTC says its a problem with the internet
SOBER omg you ran into me
DRUNK  nope EVERYONE says its you fault if you get rammed
SOBER but you ran into me from my 6
DRUNK yeap but EVERYONE says its still your fault maybe you should check your 6 more often
SOBER well how do i checki my 6 with all this lag i pay 65 bucks a month for this kick bellybutton connection
DRUNK LMAO i pay 9 bucks for dial up to kick your arse

Offline Vulcan

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9911
The dead horse named collision
« Reply #49 on: May 31, 2007, 12:42:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
if it happened on your computer, then you were the last one with a chance to avoid it...and its your damage. There just isnt any other way for it to happen in the coad.
 


Not true, I got a rear collision last night. Someone dived on me and hit me from behind, he survived, I didn't. In his FE he probably went from my high 6 to my low 12 across the top of my nose. But because of netlag my FE saw him milliseconds behind was his FE saw and rendered it as a collision. End of story

But I'm not worried, I know how the system works and theres not really any easier way of doing it. Its the same with all mmpog/sims.

Offline Laurie

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 753
The dead horse named collision
« Reply #50 on: May 31, 2007, 04:17:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
Sorry, Laurie, he's right.

HT himself has come on and said that this is the ONLY way you take damage from a collision. if it happened on your computer, then you were the last one with a chance to avoid it...and its your damage. There just isnt any other way for it to happen in the coad.

Period.

If you take damage without colliding, its from the enemy's guns.


Stil adamant? Post the film.


Then this collision model is dumb to be frank, when your a hit by someone else from BEHIND how the hell is it your responsibility to react?

Why should I have to pander around for some brick-headed moron who thinks he's japanese and just had shot of alcohol?


Offline Ghastly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1756
The dead horse named collision
« Reply #51 on: May 31, 2007, 06:14:42 AM »
Quote
Then this collision model is dumb to be frank, when your a hit by someone else from BEHIND how the hell is it your responsibility to react?


Because the alternative is turning it off, which would make the game unplayable.  

You'd be able to fly right through other aircraft 99% of the time and get off scot-free.
"Curse your sudden (but inevitable!) betrayal!"
Grue

Offline dedalos

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8052
The dead horse named collision
« Reply #52 on: May 31, 2007, 08:11:42 AM »
lol, you guys keep repeating the my FE your FE net lag bla bla bla.  WE KNOW.  WE GET IT.  :furious

What I am saing is that the colision model was changed some time back.  After the whines (which is what we call customer complains here) the messages were added.  Maybe you have not been around that long.  Think AH1, did you ever have colisions like this?  I collide in 90% of my sorties.  I cant even remember a collision before the changes.  Oh, I remember 1 in a 262. That was on a day that HT was experimenting/changing the collision bubble.  Was fixed the next day.  The pint is, it has been changed.  Do I expect anyone to get it? not anymore :lol
Waiting for another my fe your fe explanation :rofl
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23929
      • Last.FM Profile
The dead horse named collision
« Reply #53 on: May 31, 2007, 08:32:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
 I collide in 90% of my sorties.  


If that really is true and not just some exaggeration... sorry, but then you should really think about your flying.

Just because someone does a very bad job staying away from other planes it does not mean the collision model is flawed.
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

In November 2025, Lusche will return for a 20th anniversary tour. Get your tickets now!

Offline hubsonfire

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8658
The dead horse named collision
« Reply #54 on: May 31, 2007, 09:02:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
lol, you guys keep repeating the my FE your FE net lag bla bla bla.  WE KNOW.  WE GET IT.  :furious

What I am saing is that the colision model was changed some time back.  After the whines (which is what we call customer complains here) the messages were added.  Maybe you have not been around that long.  Think AH1, did you ever have colisions like this?  I collide in 90% of my sorties.  I cant even remember a collision before the changes.  Oh, I remember 1 in a 262. That was on a day that HT was experimenting/changing the collision bubble.  Was fixed the next day.  The pint is, it has been changed.  Do I expect anyone to get it? not anymore :lol
Waiting for another my fe your fe explanation :rofl


I think the collisions were turned off for a while, then they were turned back on, and people started whining, so we got the messages, then even more whining.

I cannot remember any other changes to the collision model though, even if there were any. I do remember that before the messages, I just assumed I was getting shot a lot more than I was.
mook
++Blue Knights++

Proper punctuation and capitalization go a long way towards people paying attention to your posts.  -Stoney
I was wondering why I get ignored so often.  -Hitech

Offline Larry

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6123
The dead horse named collision
« Reply #55 on: May 31, 2007, 09:12:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
lol, you guys keep repeating the my FE your FE net lag bla bla bla.  WE KNOW.  WE GET IT.  :furious

What I am saing is that the colision model was changed some time back.  After the whines (which is what we call customer complains here) the messages were added.  Maybe you have not been around that long.  Think AH1, did you ever have colisions like this?  I collide in 90% of my sorties.  I cant even remember a collision before the changes.  Oh, I remember 1 in a 262. That was on a day that HT was experimenting/changing the collision bubble.  Was fixed the next day.  The pint is, it has been changed.  Do I expect anyone to get it? not anymore :lol
Waiting for another my fe your fe explanation :rofl



Do you remember when the Me163 came out it would blow up 50% of the time?
Once known as ''TrueKill''.
JG 54 "Grünherz"
July '18 KOTH Winner


Offline dedalos

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8052
The dead horse named collision
« Reply #56 on: May 31, 2007, 09:28:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
If that really is true and not just some exaggeration... sorry, but then you should really think about your flying.

Just because someone does a very bad job staying away from other planes it does not mean the collision model is flawed.


Maybe if you tried to get into a fight once in a while you'd know what I am talking about, lol.

Anyway, I give up.  You are right.  There is nothing wrong.  Never was never will be :aok
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline WMDnow

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 258
The dead horse named collision
« Reply #57 on: May 31, 2007, 09:49:58 AM »
I say both people, when they collide, become a twisted wreck, they fall out of sky in one huge twisted ball of carnage, both die. It happened in WWII!

_____________________________ ___________
_____________________\|/_________________
_____________________/|\_________________
_____________________________ ___________
they both go boom, fall to ground.

Offline hitech

  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12425
      • http://www.hitechcreations.com
The dead horse named collision
« Reply #58 on: May 31, 2007, 10:20:21 AM »
The text buffer never ever ever ever gets it wrong, as in no way in hell as in it can not be wrong.

The only thing that changed to the collision detection was the text messages were added.

Also there were more discussions of collision before the addition of the text messages.

VWE

  • Guest
The dead horse named collision
« Reply #59 on: May 31, 2007, 10:28:20 AM »
Wait a minute... this aint HiTech, all the wurds ar speled corructly!