Author Topic: Th course of British Society in the future  (Read 4749 times)

Offline wrag

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« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2007, 01:07:03 PM »
What better way is there to deamonize all religion?

Pick a radical one and SEEM to support, or allow it.................... until the time suites you to claim ALL religion is bad?

If you look at the religious based legal system of SOME Islamic countries you will probably consider those laws barbaric.  Or at the very least repressive and totalatarian.  Example womens rights.  In that women pretty much don't have any.

Chirtianity, along with many other religions, WILL be compared to or included with the radical Islamic systems, and ALL religions will be deamonized.

The goal is a one world religion that will SEEM to be a non-religion.

Why do you think they want your firearms?

Don't worry relax it's for your own good........................
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline Hap

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« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2007, 01:07:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Either way, my point still stands. I remember there was alot of other things covered too - like the Civil Rights movement, Gandhi and King. I think those are pretty important historical events to learn about in themselves.


They are!  It's "thinking" that is broken.  

Facts are jiffy.  They are useless without right deduction, inference, conclusions . . . in short "right reasoning."

Reasoning is useless unless there be brought under the leash of truth.

Truth being "that which is so."

Offline 68Hawk

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« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2007, 01:19:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hap
They are!  It's "thinking" that is broken.  

Facts are jiffy.  They are useless without right deduction, inference, conclusions . . . in short "right reasoning."

Reasoning is useless unless there be brought under the leash of truth.

Truth being "that which is so."


And what happens when truth itself is in debate?  You've just put your foot hugely into your mouth here.

A liberal arts education is supposed to introduce you to new ways of thinking, and you as the student are free to choose or reject them as you see academically fit.  It is absolutely not a matter of 'learn this fact and believe how I say'.  One must be exposed to things that are even wrong in order to understand them.  Scholars can study Fascism without being fascists.

Are you bringing Pat Buchanon as an example of a biased and sculpted education?  If so I agree.
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Offline wrag

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« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2007, 01:28:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 68Hawk
And what happens when truth itself is in debate?  You've just put your foot hugely into your mouth here.

A liberal arts education is supposed to introduce you to new ways of thinking, and you as the student are free to choose or reject them as you see academically fit.  It is absolutely not a matter of 'learn this fact and believe how I say'.  One must be exposed to things that are even wrong in order to understand them.  Scholars can study Fascism without being fascists.

Are you bringing Pat Buchanon as an example of a biased and sculpted education?  If so I agree.


When were you last in college?  or a higher learning establishment?

Word is they have CHANGED allot!

Not only with what is taught but HOW it is taught....................... ..  free to reject? hmmmmmm...........
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline JimBeam

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« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2007, 01:40:01 PM »
its a lot alot/allot isnt a word..:aok

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Offline 68Hawk

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« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2007, 02:00:58 PM »
Steve,

Wow, I'm just so dangerous, and I have an agenda?

Please quote me where I've ever supported radical Islam of any fashion.  I haven't.

Please allow me to address the other examples that I previously neglected in the interest of concision.  

It is a very good example of a problem when one case is made so much fuss about and another isn't, just because of the races of the people involved.  Still, just because one immigrant stabs someone (no matter how heinously) it doesn't mean we can hold it against the whole immigrant population.  I know people who have been killed by white people too.  It does seem to alter the situation a little when the offender is transplanted from somewhere else, but it doesn't really.  All people make bad choices.  

Someone used the example of a rude Somali woman in a market and her bunch of kids that only rob people.  I can find an American mom with 7 kids living in a trailer, cooking meth, who's kids will all go out and steal things in their time.  Their ethnicity or heritage doesn't really change the situation.  For every one rude immigrant I could find you two who are courteous.  Better yet, for every one rude immigrant I could find you one Brit and one American who are rude.

So what we really have here is an issue of assimilation.  The feeling that, 'they come over here, take our jobs and don't even want to be a part of our culture' is not unwarranted at all.  To some extent I agree with that sentiment.  I have no problem with signs being put up in multiple languages, especially safety signs, but when people make no effort to learn the language or culture that they are entering there is a problem.  To some extent bilingual signs facilitate this.  This is also a two way street between the immigrants and the absorbing culture.  Too few immigrants are willing to break out of their 'little Pakistan', but also too few Americans and British are ready to accept them with open arms.  It is much the same way in Germany with the Turks.

Two families of Mexicans live just down the hall from me.  They are very nice, have jobs, work hard, and their kids are extremely well behaved.  One of them has a really nice Mustang.  They moved here legally in search of a better life, and they detract nothing from our society.  Some punk downtown doesn't invalidate their contributions.  Most people around here don't even talk to them, and they notice that.  They've told me how nice it is that I say hi to them in passing, like a normal human being.  The more I talk to them, the more they talk to me.  Funny enough, they also like to live, love, learn and grow.

So, in America there is a growing population of people of Mexican heritage.  Some came here, some were born here.  Some choose to wave the Mexican flag to celebrate their heritage, and lately to protest the treatment they as citizens have been receiving (and to protest for immigration reform, but thats another issue).  It is not an expression of Mexican Nationalism over American Citizenship.  

I don't EVER hear people complaining on St Patrick's day when Irish flags are waved everywhere.  Nor during Oktoberfest when German and Bavarian flags fly.  Are those people trying to turn this country into their former ones?  Is someone who is wearing a 'kiss me I'm Irish' shirt invading this country?

If you want to encourage cultural assimilation, you must first realize that your own culture is not immutable.  Then you must realize that their own cultures and practices may offer positive things for you, just as yours does for them.  

The best thing you can do is to go down to their neighborhood and say, "Hi, I'm just really curious about where you come from and what life is like there.  Would you like to meet me in the park sometime for Tea and share some things with me?"  This may sound really sappy, but by starting a conversation comparing your cultures, it opens them up for you to express yours as well.  They can practice their English, and you might learn a little of their language (serving you well if you run into one of the delinquent people speaking that language).  

Arbitrary political correctness is a problem in Western society, but don't confuse that with cultural objectivity.  Too many people are quick to call something political correctness when they don't like what they hear.  

I don't see how any of this supports radical ideologies or hoaky 7th century religions.  

BTW I'm not a liberal.
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Offline 68Hawk

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« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2007, 02:12:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by wrag
When were you last in college?  or a higher learning establishment?

Word is they have CHANGED allot!

Not only with what is taught but HOW it is taught....................... ..  free to reject? hmmmmmm...........


When?  I just graduated Saturday actually.  Been around here for a while.  

I've never had a Prof refuse to let us disagree with them, as long as we justify ourselves.  They may turn and say our line of argument doesn't work, but thats scholarship.  I've actually been know to get on people's nerves for calling out Profs (with good justification), but when I'm right they have to accept it.  When I'm wrong they love telling me, and why.

Some schools are far better than others at presenting a diversity of ideas objectively and encouraging critical thinking.  Memorization and regurgitation are NOT critical thinking.  Jerry Falwell's 'university' doesn't count as a balanced education.

Laurie if you wanted an education focused on the Christian world view you would have been better off in a seminary.  Even so, Christianity's leaders also need to know about Islam and other religions.  Their curriculum should include an accurate study of other religions' beliefs.
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Offline 1K3

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« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2007, 02:12:33 PM »
There goes that left-wing / right-wing labeling again... :noid

Offline Laurie

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« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2007, 02:13:05 PM »
It's not necssearily supporting Radical of Islam that my quarells in this Thread. But more of the commonly occuring banding over back wards for people who have come here by choice, we owe no debt to them, if anything they are in ours.

Offline Laurie

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« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2007, 02:14:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 68Hawk



Laurie if you wanted an education focused on the Christian world view you would have been better off in a seminary.  Even so, Christianity's leaders also need to know about Islam and other religions.  Their curriculum should include an accurate study of other religions' beliefs.


Since when was my post JUST about islam and christianity.

Offline 68Hawk

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« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2007, 02:22:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Laurie
Since when was my post JUST about islam and christianity.


You're right, it wasn't.  That was only a comment on your frustration with your education.
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Offline Major Biggles

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« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2007, 02:31:30 PM »
laurie's post didn't appear to be 'i'm a white christian, everyone else bugger off' at all.

he was saying that many of britain's subcultures do not integrate, and do not abide by the law, which is unfortunately very true in our large cities.

there's a HUGE problem with black knife + gun gang crime, most of these guys aged 12-18. young black kids (plenty of white kids too) roam the streets looking for an easy victim to either rob or just murder for the fun of it. the problem is nothing to do with race, but the subculture. with a lot of the poor young black guys, their whole life is based around respect through violence and 'bling' which is usually all stolen, or paid for with stolen goods.


these are young BRITISH kids who are out of control, and our useless government (nor any of the useless parties) don't do anything. england is bad right now.



anywhere outside the fancy areas of london is dangerous after dark. luckily enough i don't get much trouble because i'm fairly tall and well built, but growing up i was always terrified coming home. it really is that bad.



but laurie, learning about other cultures is a good thing. just because a small percentage of wackjob muslims don't keep an open mind, doesn't mean you should become a fanatic and close yours. hate never solves anything, just look at bloody palestine and israel! think about getting into local politics too :)

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Offline Banzzai

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« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2007, 04:01:07 PM »
Quote
most of these guys aged 12-18. young black kids (plenty of white kids too) roam the streets looking for an easy victim to either rob or just murder for the fun of it

That is part of the problem in Britain not only in the black community

people say rich kids are born with a silver spoon in there mouths
with most of the "Benefits" that are dished out in the UK
the poor mans silver spoon is welfare they don't need an excuse to go out & find work
it's handed out every week by the social

@ 12 i was doing  paper rounds mornings & evenings and on a saturday
 worked 6 hours at the local slaughter house  i didn't have time to hang around on street corners

I left the uk in 94 and used to head back as often as i can.
now my mother is lucky to see me once a year
you can't help but notice what a ****hole it's become.
 my cousin is a good example the guy is either on the sofa or in the pub
 if he needs anything he's at the social & 99% of the time he gets it. all he says is
"whats the point in working if you get it for free?"

if everyone has to WORK in theory they should HAVE to intergrate
with each other
Achmed WILL have to learn the language and won't get a free ride
and my cousin will have to get off his potato peelin lazy arse and talk to Achmed
« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 04:04:55 PM by Banzzai »

Offline 68Hawk

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« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2007, 04:03:48 PM »
I agree!
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Offline Laurie

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« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2007, 04:06:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Major Biggles
laurie's post didn't appear to be 'i'm a white christian, everyone else bugger off' at all.

he was saying that many of britain's subcultures do not integrate, and do not abide by the law, which is unfortunately very true in our large cities.

there's a HUGE problem with black knife + gun gang crime, most of these guys aged 12-18. young black kids (plenty of white kids too) roam the streets looking for an easy victim to either rob or just murder for the fun of it. the problem is nothing to do with race, but the subculture. with a lot of the poor young black guys, their whole life is based around respect through violence and 'bling' which is usually all stolen, or paid for with stolen goods.


these are young BRITISH kids who are out of control, and our useless government (nor any of the useless parties) don't do anything. england is bad right now.



anywhere outside the fancy areas of london is dangerous after dark. luckily enough i don't get much trouble because i'm fairly tall and well built, but growing up i was always terrified coming home. it really is that bad.



but laurie, learning about other cultures is a good thing. just because a small percentage of wackjob muslims don't keep an open mind, doesn't mean you should become a fanatic and close yours. hate never solves anything, just look at bloody palestine and israel! think about getting into local politics too :)


I'm a member of the conservative party. and Ty for understanding the point i was trying to put across.

Personally i think we need another Churchill styled politician who people could trust and would feel that what he/she was doing would be in their best interests. A person to re-unite the population, no-one on the current political scene seems to be very patriotic or bothered with the subject, not even within the 'modern conservatives' although some of thier back benchers are still old-school tories. Hague, Howard and Boris Johnson (love that guy, what an absoloute joker) from the Shadow cabinet appear slightly more appealing to me personally than Camereon.