Tax Evaders Challenge Feds

[Elfie]

that's where ya gotta start, spending. can't keep passing 2.7 trillion dollar budgets if ya wanna lower taxes.

I've read that the optimal tax rate is 23%. (That includes all taxes, sales tax, income tax, hidden taxes etc.) Isn't our current tax rate somewhere close to 50%? Supposedly 23% is the point where the gov't brings in the most money because fewer people cheat on their taxes and they have more disposable income to buy things which results in more sales tax revenue.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Goth
Do you understand that the Revolutionary War came about as a result of taxation without representation, not taxation in general. There's a difference between a king arbitrarily deciding that his subjects will pay whatever he deems necessary and your congress representing (supposedly) your best interests.

Do you understand that the Revolutionary War came about only as a result of radicals who fomented war?  All the reasons given to start the war were incredibly weak.  If it were not for those you would call fools now, the war would have never started.


The self ignorance of american history will doom it for ever.

I agree with that. Armed revolt will almost certainly end in disaster. Even if the military stands down, and there is very little bloodshed.

Armed revolt is the only solution.  There is no other viable solution while those who corrupt this country maintain absolute power.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
 

Dred, I disagree.  You will be surprised by how quickly it will flash over, given the proper catalyst.

Given the second part of your statement in responce to me
Im not sure I understand what it is your disagreeing with me on.

[FBBone]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Do you understand that the Revolutionary War came about only as a result of radicals who fomented war?  All the reasons given to start the war were incredibly weak.  If it were not for those you would call fools now, the war would have never started.


The self ignorance of american history will doom it for ever.



Armed revolt is the only solution.  There is no other viable solution while those who corrupt this country maintain absolute power.

This, my friends, is why the 2nd amendment is under constant attack.  A disarmed populous presents little threat.  By the time they come after the things you cherish, it's too late.

[FBBone]

......btw, I just agreed with laser.  Off to the shrink I go!!!!!!!

[Curval]

I think it is only fitting he makes his last stand in New Hampshire.

[storch]

do you folks realize that the first tax revolt the rupublic put down was led by george washington himself?  malcontents and freeloaders are nothing new.  if you don't like the system here move elsewhere.  I hear central american republics don't enforce tax collection, move there.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by storch
do you folks realize that the first tax revolt the rupublic put down was led by george washington himself?  malcontents and freeloaders are nothing new.  if you don't like the system here move elsewhere.  I hear central american republics don't enforce tax collection, move there.

I guess working or doing something to change the system is COMPLETELY out of the question

This was supposed to be a country of the people,for the people,by the people.

Its rapidly becomming a country Of big business and big government. By big business and big government, FOR big business and big government.

No. If you dont like the system here. If you dont like whats going on.
Dont just complain like so many of us do. Get up and actually DO something about it.

while the guy may very well be a nut. He isnt out attacking anyone.
Nor is he threatoning anyone
He is doing what he sees as defending himself
and basically saying that if he is attacked he will fight.
And he may very well be willing to fight and die for what he beleives is right.

A breath of fresh air IMO

While he may be a nut. I can respect that.
He is at least doing something.
A hell of alot more then the rest of us sheep are

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Still, not paying taxes is against the law. Getting himself and his wife killed, along with others DOES NOT help the case against absurd taxes and big government. Nor does aligning himself with Randy Weaver.

[storch]

not so.  it is very much a country of the common man.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by storch
do you folks realize that the first tax revolt the rupublic put down was led by george washington himself?  malcontents and freeloaders are nothing new.  if you don't like the system here move elsewhere.  I hear central american republics don't enforce tax collection, move there.

Again with the ignorance of american history.  The first tax revolt to be put down was done so by mercenaries hired by the governor of Massachusetts.  Why was it done by mercenaries?  Because the people refused to do what they saw as wrong in the first place.  This quickly established what the government was willing to do to get it's tax money.

It was only after the reformation of the republic did Washington have the authority and power to have the national militia put down ANOTHER revolt.


Both times, they revolted for the same reasons.  The governments placed illogically high taxes on one of the common poor farmer's only means of making a little cash for himself to cover any costs he might have received throughout the season.  A tax which WAS NOT THERE under British rule.  This tax was the main reason that many farmers broke and were sent to debtors' prison.  These "Freeloaders" were farmers who only sometimes had enough crop to survive.

And yet you insult them.

[bsdaddict]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Still, not paying taxes is against the law.

actually, that's the point he's making, what law?  he claims there is no law that requires him to pay an income tax and was willing to take it to trial until the judge made it clear in his instructions to the jury that the Brown's wouldn't be able to present their defense.  or something like that.  

basically Ed Brown figured he was dealing with a kangaroo court and said forget it.  They were then convicted in absentia and are now "convicted tax evaders" "holed up in a compound", when all they really did was say "screw this, we're going home."

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Again, few people have more dislike of excessive taxes than I. Fewer still have more distrust of the government. However, the law regarding taxes is on the books, in black and white. His defense is not valid, has been proven to be so, and legal precedent clearly states that fact. Brown had his chance to go to court, he just couldn't present the defense he wanted, so instead of fighting the law within the law, he decided to just avoid the law, and provoke a confrontation.

Regardless of your opinion of the laws, this is still a nation based on the rule of law. You don't get to decide you "don't like a law" or decide a "law doesn't exist", and just ignore it. Things don't work that way. If it did, what we'd have is anarchy.

And trying to draw a comparison between the causes of the American Revolution and the Browns, or the Weavers, or the Branch Davidians, is insulting to the founders of the country, and to the intelligence of anyone who thinks rationally on the subject. There's a huge difference between King George and the elected government of this sovereign nation, and it is easy to distinguish that difference.

[lasersailor184]

"Why should I agree to trade one tyrant three thousand miles away for three thousand tyrants one mile away?"

To be ignorant of actual history, and the REAL causes of the American Revolution is to insult anyone with an IQ above room temperature.



Oh, and just in case you don't feel like looking it up, what happened to the Weavers and the Branch Davidians is far more worthy of a revolution then the causes of the American Revolution.

[Elfie]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Still, not paying taxes is against the law. Getting himself and his wife killed, along with others DOES NOT help the case against absurd taxes and big government. Nor does aligning himself with Randy Weaver.

Randy Weaver, while a nut himself, did not provoke the incident at Ruby Ridge. He was also aquitted of weapons charges due to entrapment. From what I recall, federal agents repeatedly asked him to sell them sawed off shotguns with barrel lengths less than 18 inches. He turned them down over and over until one day he caved in because he needed the money. Randy Weaver also claims that he left the barrels at a legal length (18 inches or better) and that the federal undercover agent he sold them to, reduced the length by another 3/8 of an inch.

Randy Weaver is just another person that believes our gov't is evil and chose to live out in the sticks to avoid them.

The write up at wikipedia conforms to other accounts I have read pretty accurately.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge