Author Topic: Incas in Norway !  (Read 2236 times)

Offline vorticon

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« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2007, 08:36:42 PM »
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Don't worry boys.  Dirk Pitt will be along shortly to solve the mystery, find the lost treasure, and party with your women.



but will he manage to blame it all on freemasons while hes at it?

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2007, 09:00:16 PM »
Seems to be fairly common that archeologists are discovering ancient people traveled much further than previously thought. We're hearing more about how the Chinese got a lot further around the Indian Ocean and Pacific Ocean all the time.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2007, 09:03:43 PM »
I'm amazed that a thousand year old corpse can be identified as Incan.
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Offline vorticon

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« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2007, 09:06:28 PM »
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Seems to be fairly common that archeologists are discovering ancient people traveled much further than previously thought. We're hearing more about how the Chinese got a lot further around the Indian Ocean and Pacific Ocean all the time.



and why would anyone be suprised...people have always gone as far as there technology will allow them, if they have ships capable of surviving an ocean passage and some idea of navigation then theres no reason why they wouldn't.

vikings are easiest to confirm simply because we know quite a bit about them, they were the most recent, and they had a fairly easy trip across (in terms of land to land)

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2007, 10:47:11 PM »
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Originally posted by AKIron
I'm amazed that a thousand year old corpse can be identified as Incan.


That and the fact that the Vikings would have had to sail across to North America, then south all the way around South America just to get to the Incan Empire.
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Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2007, 11:17:03 PM »
The time frame is all wrong.  Eric the Red began his voyage about the year 1000 a.d.  Leif Ericson discovered Greenland some years after that.  The Viking settlers that followed him to Greenland eventually embarked in their longship on a voyage that would discover America.

That places all of these voyages within the eleventh century.  Even allowing for the fact that some of these Viking settlers may have begun a voyage of exploration down the eastern coast of North America immediately upon settling in Newfoundland, they would not have contacted the Incas themselves.  The Inca Empire wasn't born until the year 1438 a.d.

It is possible that the skeletons may have been those of Indian tribes that were the precursors of the Incas.  Pre-Columbian trade routes traversed the Andes Mountains and wandered north through Central America.  IF Viking explorers did indeed sail into the Gulf of Mexico they might have come into contact with these early Indians and transported some of them back to Scandinavia.

Maybe.

I think it highly unlikely that any Viking longship could have made the long journey down the coast of South America and safely navigated around the Horn, made its way to Peru, picked up some Indians, and returned all the long way to Scandinavia following the same path by whichy they had come.

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2007, 11:44:39 PM »
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I think it highly unlikely that any Viking longship could have made the long journey down the coast of South America and safely navigated around the Horn, made its way to Peru, picked up some Indians, and returned all the long way to Scandinavia following the same path by whichy they had come.


Thats what I'm thinking too. The other part of your post though, about sailing into the Gulf of Mexico, that seems much more plausible.
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2007, 06:37:56 AM »
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Originally posted by Shuckins
The time frame is all wrong.  Eric the Red began his voyage about the year 1000 a.d.  Leif Ericson discovered Greenland some years after that.  The Viking settlers that followed him to Greenland eventually embarked in their longship on a voyage that would discover America.

That places all of these voyages within the eleventh century.  Even allowing for the fact that some of these Viking settlers may have begun a voyage of exploration down the eastern coast of North America immediately upon settling in Newfoundland, they would not have contacted the Incas themselves.  The Inca Empire wasn't born until the year 1438 a.d.

It is possible that the skeletons may have been those of Indian tribes that were the precursors of the Incas.  Pre-Columbian trade routes traversed the Andes Mountains and wandered north through Central America.  IF Viking explorers did indeed sail into the Gulf of Mexico they might have come into contact with these early Indians and transported some of them back to Scandinavia.

Maybe.

I think it highly unlikely that any Viking longship could have made the long journey down the coast of South America and safely navigated around the Horn, made its way to Peru, picked up some Indians, and returned all the long way to Scandinavia following the same path by whichy they had come.


Little correction. Leifur Eiríksson was in America in 1000, Greenland had been discovered before and was being settled. Discovered by his father, Eric the red, a troublemaking Norseman that had left Norway well before and lived for some time on a farm in the W of Iceland that he settled (original) himself and named "Eiríksstaðir". (Guess what that means)
Anyway, the skeletons share a unique genetic failiure to the Incas and thereby their ancestors. So, if this gets manifested my money is on the Incas being well away from home when meeting those straying Vikings, maybe somewhere near..Texas or Mexico?
BTW, Incas, Mayas, Aztecs, they are related if gone back long enough. But how far?
Then another Speculation. If Vikings would have been on the Pacific side, wouldn't they rather have been over the Northern route? The year 1000 was in a warm period you see.
The Horn would have been much tougher, and actually, many ships were originally lost between Iceland and Greenland. Those are open boats rather than ships, but very fast and nimble. But the sea between Iceland and Greenland has two passing currents, and the sea is mostly rough, even when the weather is good. I was there fishing in January and was amazed how rough it was, yeaccchhh!!!
And the Celts, - they had already settled in Iceland before the Vikings came. Seem to have been sailing an incredible lot!
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Reschke

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« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2007, 08:53:06 AM »
There are many things that we are just now finding out about the time periods within the last two thousand years or so. Our ancestors were much more capable than what people give them credit for and its beginning to show up in the historical records. I honestly would not be surprised if the Vikings had gone all through the Gulf of Mexico and even as far as the northern part of South America. After all they did travel extensively through the Mediterranean and into North Africa some.
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2007, 08:58:02 AM »
It was aliens. You know it; admit it. We are not alone!
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« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2007, 08:59:55 AM »
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Originally posted by Angus
If Vikings would have been on the Pacific side, wouldn't they rather have been over the Northern route? The year 1000 was in a warm period you see.
 did the vikings create gobal warming in that time?

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2007, 09:03:10 AM »
soooo... the scientists don't really know?   At least they know all about global climate change.

lazs

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2007, 09:05:50 AM »
Angus, thanks for the correction.  I had the century of exploration right but couldn't remember the years of discovery of Greenland and North America.

I don't believe the Vikings would have used the northern route, if by that you mean north of Canada.  While the world was warmer in the eleventh century, I don't believe it was warm enough to have melted the Arctic ice pack sufficiently for them to pass through it safely.

Another possibility might be that, having sailed into the Gulf of Mexico, they landed somewhere in Central America to repair their boats and resupply.  Having done so, they might, might mind you, have crossed the Isthmus of Panama and journeyed south along the coast in Indian vessels until they reached Peru.  But there will probably never be any way to know for certain.

Regards, Shuckins

P.S.:  Oh, by the way, the possibility of Vikings sailing into the Gulf of Mexico and making contact with the Indian civilizations there might explain some of the legends of white-skinned gods that were part of Aztec mythology.

Offline Angus

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« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2007, 01:02:34 PM »
Hello again:
"Another possibility might be that, having sailed into the Gulf of Mexico, they landed somewhere in Central America to repair their boats and resupply. Having done so, they might, might mind you, have crossed the Isthmus of Panama and journeyed south along the coast in Indian vessels until they reached Peru. But there will probably never be any way to know for certain.

Regards, Shuckins"

Very much thinking the same. The idea of the northern route came because that in that warm period, the glaciers up here were actually smaller than today - hence a question about the polar ice. It is a relatively easy route if there is space to sail on.
However, I absolutely follow the speculation of a "meet-up" in central america. After all, aouldn't the Incas or people from their origin have wandered as far as the Yukatan or further up? Nothing to stop them really.
Absolutely interesting stuff!
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2007, 02:47:06 PM »
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However, I absolutely follow the speculation of a "meet-up" in central america. After all, aouldn't the Incas or people from their origin have wandered as far as the Yukatan or further up? Nothing to stop them really.


Nothing to stop them except the Mayans and Aztecs and who knows how many other tribes in between, not to mention the terrain itself. It would be a difficult journey for sure. :)
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.