FBI uses spyware with out warrants (wired)

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Elfie
I view the internet as a public place, in much the same way that a shopping mall is public. I also view my computer as private, much the same way I view my home as being private.

I hate spyware and other forms of malware, I think all of them should be illegal and those that write and distribute those programs should be viewed as criminals.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that the FBI in this case is a spy cam in the restroom taking pictures of you when you use the public bathroom at the public mall.

[crockett]

Originally posted by john9001
crockett, if the threats were real and children died, you would be the first to blame boosh and say "why didn't he doooo something".

Why would I blame bush? What's he have to do with this, other than under his admin our rights seem to be disappearing down the toilet.

BTW commonsense tends to lead in the direction of most bomb threats tend to always be BS.. If someone is going to bomb something, they just do then claim responsibility afterwords.

Again as someone already posted.. the debate isn't about the bomb threat.. it's about the FBI being backed by a court saying you no longer have a right for privacy on your computer. The bomb threat is meaningless in the big picture.

[Elfie]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that the FBI in this case is a spy cam in the restroom taking pictures of you when you use the public bathroom at the public mall.

By all means take pictures of me when I am out in public, even in the restroom if you enjoy looking at mens privates while they urinate. (Sicko!! ) I'm in a public place.

Just don't install spyware on my comp (private) unless you have a search warrant.

[Engine]

Originally posted by ROC
You are in a public domain.  It is no different than the privacy of your car while on the roads.  You can be watched and tracked, intersection by intersection, by anyone public or private, while you remain private within your vehicle unless you are under investigation and a warrant is issued to open your doors.

To continue with your analogy:
Does the government have the right to plant tracking and listening devices on your car without a warrant?

That's what they did in this case.

[crockett]

Originally posted by ROC
You are in a public domain.  It is no different than the privacy of your car while on the roads.  You can be watched and tracked, intersection by intersection, by anyone public or private, while you remain private within your vehicle unless you are under investigation and a warrant is issued to open your doors.

Police can not search your car unless you give them permission or unless they see something inside the car which leads them to believe a crime has been committed.

They can't just say, hey we think this guy robbed a bank so lets search his car. Now if there was a gun on the seat or a bag full of money in the back seat, then of course they can legally search the car.

Your PC is private and there is no way they can just happen "see" something inside your computer which would lead them to believe a crime was committed. So this is the same thing as searching a car with no justification and hoping they will find a crime.

This will be turned over via the Supreme Court. The problem comes in with how many people rights will be violated in the meantime? Then how many cases will be thrown out because info was gathered illegally.

[Elfie]

They can't just say, hey we think this guy robbed a bank so lets search his car

That would be probable cause and they could search your car legally.

[crockett]

Originally posted by Elfie
By all means take pictures of me when I am out in public, even in the restroom if you enjoy looking at mens privates while they urinate. (Sicko!! ) I'm in a public place.

Just don't install spyware on my comp (private) unless you have a search warrant.

Actually there are now laws on the book that might even help in this case. A year or two ago a law was added I can't remember what it was called, however it made taking pictures illegal if the person assumed they had reasonable privacy.

Was something to do with anti-voyeurism.. Was a big debate about it being used against paparazzi and people whom take pictures at the beach and so on.

[crockett]

Originally posted by Elfie
That would be probable cause and they could search your car legally.

No they couldn't.. you miss-read what I said.

They can not just stop a car on the highway with no reason and search his car claiming he robbed a bank. There is no probable cause.

On the other hand if they pulled over a car on the highway, and there was a gun on the seat and a bag of money in the back seat. They most certainly could search his car at that point, if they thought a crime had been committed.

[trax1]

I look at it this way, if your not doing anything illegal using your computer then you have nothing to worry about.

[Engine]

Originally posted by trax1
I look at it this way, if your not doing anything illegal using your computer then you have nothing to worry about.

How disgusting.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by crockett
Police can not search your car unless you give them permission or unless they see something inside the car which leads them to believe a crime has been committed.

They can't just say, hey we think this guy robbed a bank so lets search his car. Now if there was a gun on the seat or a bag full of money in the back seat, then of course they can legally search the car.

Your PC is private and there is no way they can just happen "see" something inside your computer which would lead them to believe a crime was committed. So this is the same thing as searching a car with no justification and hoping they will find a crime.

This will be turned over via the Supreme Court. The problem comes in with how many people rights will be violated in the meantime? Then how many cases will be thrown out because info was gathered illegally.

They can pull you over for speeding.  Place you under arrest and impound the car, tow it to an impound lot and search and inventory the vehical at the impound lot.  If they find a gun during that search or better a body in the trunk.  Do you think you get to walk.

[Engine]

Did you read his post?

[crockett]

Originally posted by trax1
I look at it this way, if your not doing anything illegal using your computer then you have nothing to worry about.

Spoken like a true American of his times.. It's all ok until it happens to me.

No offense and not trying to bash you. However, what you just said, goes against every principle this country was founded on. Not trying to single you out, but this kind of attitude seems to becoming the norm in this country these days and it's extremely sad to see.

It's always ok until it's your rights that are getting violated. I used to think as an American citizen, it was my duty to my country to make sure my country stays true to what it was founded on. Lately it's starting to show that no one even cares anymore and that maybe this country isn't worth standing up for.

It's one thing to fight for your rights from a govt as anyone with power will try to get more. That includes govt's or people of power, but when normal everyday people just willingly give their rights away.. Well it becomes a point, you really wonder what's left to stand up for.

[Elfie]

They can not just stop a car on the highway with no reason and search his car claiming he robbed a bank.

You are correct they can't do that, I did indeed misread what you meant.

[Maverick]

It's a chilling situation to be sure. Given the information in the article, assuming it's all there and it was reported accurately, this should have been a situation where a warrant would have been obtainable. You already have an offense and normal tracking brings the investigator to a blind contact. I would imagine that there was enough info to convince a judge that the warranted intrusion in the computer and ISP files was permissable. If they had stopped at the ISP and just obtained the ISP info I wouldn't have much problem with it.