Author Topic: A pilots' analysis of dog fighting an F-22 (Read 3744 times)

Gunslinger · « **Reply #60 on:** July 24, 2007, 09:10:58 PM »

The F35 isn't exactly in the same league as the 22. It's supposed to be a little more simple with some of the same qualities and technologies.

Dare I compare it to the F4 Phantom only in the sense that it's designed to provide similar parts through out the 3 services that are going to use it.

Another comon misconception is that ALL JSF will be VTOL. This is incorrect where as only one version of it will be. (the B model I beleive)

From what I've heard it's not trying to replace F15s but more F16s and Harriers.

With one comment saying what's going to happen when it comes up against superior Chinese and russian air craft.....well that all depends on the tactics being used.

Elfie · « **Reply #61 on:** July 24, 2007, 09:23:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda
Show me a thing that can't be broken, crashed, spoiled or destroyed.

Except SR-71, sure We have shot a U-2, so probably you didn't send Blackbirds inside SAM range. There were myths about S-200 SAM shooting down a Blackbird, over polar tundra, in an ambush, but I don't believe it. U-2 on May Day 1960 was real

No one is saying it *cant* be shot down, that would be a rediculous statement to make, just that it's very unlikely to be shot down by a SAM based on reports we have about how hard it is to lock on to.

From reports I have heard, yes the US did send the SR 71 into Soviet airspace. It was to fast and flew to high to be shot down with the SAMs the Soviets had. Heard about one SR 71 that got shot at over North Korea. When they saw the SAM, one of them said, "Oh look, they're shooting at us" then laughed. Supposedly that SAM missed by over 3 miles. Now this doesn't mean that a better SAM couldn't have been built that was actually fast enough to catch the SR 71, just that the Soviets didn't have one at the time.

AquaShrimp · « **Reply #62 on:** July 24, 2007, 09:55:37 PM »

SR-71s flew lots of missions over North Vietnam. The majority of the missles fired at the SR-71 were from sites in North Vietnam.

Unlike other aircraft, the faster the SR-71 flew, the more fuel efficient it was. The only thing really limiting the plane in speed was temperature. Friction caused even the canopy glass to be 300 degrees, while the rest of the plane was usually around 700 degrees. Flying much faster than Mach 3 would have caused the plane to melt. The SR-71s engines (J-58s) were good for at least Mach 3.6 according to many sources.

Angus · « **Reply #63 on:** July 25, 2007, 05:32:38 AM »

How fast are the SAM's?

Elfie · « **Reply #64 on:** July 25, 2007, 11:39:25 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angus
How fast are the SAM's?

Well it varies according to each particular SAM, but up to MACH 3 seems to be all I can find. Most of the web sites I found in my short search didn't list the missile speeds.

Viking · « **Reply #65 on:** July 25, 2007, 12:05:24 PM »

Modern theater defense missiles like the Patriot and S-300/400 have a max speed of around Mach 5. Older missiles like those in use when the U-2 and SR-71 flew had a top speed of around Mach 3. Smaller portable and vehicle mounted SAMS are typically Mach 1.5-3.

expat · « **Reply #66 on:** July 25, 2007, 12:08:46 PM »

I read a report from a mig 31 jockey who intercepted an sr71 over soviet airspace ,nothing is impossible stealth technology does not make you totaly invisible just harder to see and according to an RAF pilot friend of mine the older longer wave misile systems dont have too much problem seeing you , the newer shortwave radar setups are the ones that have the problem.
Back in the late 60's Lockheed were well upset when the brits tracked the blackbird for it's first showing in the paris (or was that farnborough forgive me im well tanked up in Prague on me hols

) airshow , they were actually tracking the heated air around the blackbird , but traking it none the less.
While were on the subject of shooting down U2'S didnt Gary Powers loose a fair bit of hieght enabling the missiles to get him ??????
Anyway just my tuppence worth..
ta ta pip pip an all that : back to the bar ....dobrey dan:)

Viking · « **Reply #67 on:** July 25, 2007, 12:13:51 PM »

I doubt it was a MiG-31; it entered service in 1982. Must have been a MiG-25 ... if it really happened. MiG-31 isn't as fast as the MiG-25 either.

Viking · « **Reply #68 on:** July 25, 2007, 12:14:31 PM »

Oh, and dobro dan to you too.

expat · « **Reply #69 on:** July 25, 2007, 12:31:55 PM »

defo mig 31 remeber the write up , it was in one of the better aircraft mags...was no too long ago the write up that is .....
did i spell the dobro thingy correct ????
any way nashledanou

B3YT · « **Reply #70 on:** July 25, 2007, 01:05:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
Has any of these manuvers been done with full weaponload, or have they only been done in a clean configuration at airshows?

all the display manovers can be done with full weapons load. the SU27, Mig29 and SU33 were designed with these manovers in mindfor combat . It alows the pilot to pop off missile shots while pulling high AoA with very little G on the pilons. the thrust vectoring only gives the plane a g rating of 3 to pull the nose up at an angle of 58deg where as a conventional plane has to pull 6-8 G to get the same angle in that time. missiles can not be launched over 5 G loading (something that the Us navy learnt over Vietnam).

Viking · « **Reply #71 on:** July 25, 2007, 01:07:32 PM »

I'm afraid you spelled it like how an American would pronounce it ... so no.

Na shledanou, to you too.

AWMac · « **Reply #72 on:** July 25, 2007, 01:07:40 PM »

I just love it when Russian Leaders catch a Cold....

BTW what Russian Ballad will they play for Putin this Winter?

Mac

expat · « **Reply #73 on:** July 25, 2007, 01:11:08 PM »

bloody good beer guide lied to me then

mind you will let them off beer has been good so far

Elfie · « **Reply #74 on:** July 25, 2007, 01:12:20 PM »

Quote

I read a report from a mig 31 jockey who intercepted an sr71 over soviet airspace

I don't think the MiG 31 is fast enough to catch the SR-71, the MiG 25 might have been though.