Author Topic: Jug is Handi-capped (Read 6310 times)

bozon · « **Reply #120 on:** August 13, 2007, 01:29:56 PM »

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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Why are we debating this FACT? I never said he SHOULD HAVE chosen another route. He was victim to the tactics of the day, until he was helped by the traitor.

Actually, he would have landed forces behind the Spartans if the Athenian fleet had not blocked his navy at the straits near Artemisium (if I spelled that right...).

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #121 on:** August 13, 2007, 02:48:40 PM »

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Originally posted by Boxboy
WOW what a lack of history knowledge by some of you I am astounded.

300 Spartans (actually around 1500 men at the start but 1200 left the battle for Athens). This action is taught in most military schools in the world to demonstrate the tactical avantage of TERRAIN vs numbers.

I agree, just goes to show what happens when one gets their history lesson from a movie based on a graphical novel rather than historical fact.

By the way, it was approximately 7,000 Greeks at the start of the battle and when the majority of the Greek retreated, approximately 2,000 were left (Spartans, Helots, Thespians (the non-actor kind), and Thebans).

ack-ack

Boxboy · « **Reply #122 on:** August 13, 2007, 03:59:34 PM »

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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I agree, just goes to show what happens when one gets their history lesson from a movie based on a graphical novel rather than historical fact.

By the way, it was approximately 7,000 Greeks at the start of the battle and when the majority of the Greek retreated, approximately 2,000 were left (Spartans, Helots, Thespians (the non-actor kind), and Thebans).

ack-ack

You are correct, I just stated the later fact that the Thespians and Helots left the battle to protect Athens, while the Spartans (by choice) stayed to fight the rear guard action at the pass.

The movies and others have picked the end of the facts to glorify, but it is STILL the terrain that was the tactical advantage and the Persians had NO choice but a frontal attack, and that by light infantry troops more suited to open area's.

dedalos · « **Reply #123 on:** August 13, 2007, 04:04:05 PM »

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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I agree, just goes to show what happens when one gets their history lesson from a movie based on a graphical novel rather than historical fact.

By the way, it was approximately 7,000 Greeks at the start of the battle and when the majority of the Greek retreated, approximately 2,000 were left (Spartans, Helots, Thespians (the non-actor kind), and Thebans).

ack-ack

Yep, closer to 10,000 actually. Once it became clear they could not hold any more they went back to help deffend Athens. The spartans were the last to fall and there were only 300. Athens was evacuated on time so they ended up burning it. Here is your home work now. How many Persians made it back?

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #124 on:** August 13, 2007, 04:49:48 PM »

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Originally posted by Boxboy
You are correct, I just stated the later fact that the Thespians and Helots left the battle to protect Athens, while the Spartans (by choice) stayed to fight the rear guard action at the pass.

The movies and others have picked the end of the facts to glorify, but it is STILL the terrain that was the tactical advantage and the Persians had NO choice but a frontal attack, and that by light infantry troops more suited to open area's.

No, the Thespians stayed with the Spartans, the Thebans were supposedly forced to remain and the Helots had no choice since they were Spartan serfs. The Thespians, Spartans and Helots fought until the bitter end. The Thebans, who of questionable loyalty, surrendered to the Persians and then allied themselves with Xerxes. Friggin' Thebans, can't trust 'em.

The "romance" that surrounds the story of the 300 Spartans is a result of movies like "300 Spartans" and "300". People should remember that just because something is based on something, doesn't make it a historical fact.

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Originally posted by dedalos
Here is your home work now. How many Persians made it back?

Depends on who's numbers you go by. Herodotus reported the Persian forces at over 5 million men and Ctesias places that number around 800,00 while modern estimates range from 100,00 to 250,000 Persians. Now just subtract the estimated Persian losses of 20,000 killed and you'll get your multiple answers.

Who would have known the thread hijack topic proved more interesting than the original topic?

ack-ack

FrodeMk3 · « **Reply #125 on:** August 13, 2007, 06:02:12 PM »

WTF in the world, do butt-naked spearchuckers from ancient Greece have to do with the P-47 Thunderbolt???

bj229r · « **Reply #126 on:** August 13, 2007, 07:21:20 PM »

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No, the Thespians stayed with the Spartans, the Thebans

My buddy's wife turned out to be a Theban

Masherbrum · « **Reply #127 on:** August 13, 2007, 07:30:47 PM »

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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
WTF in the world, do butt-naked spearchuckers from ancient Greece have to do with the P-47 Thunderbolt???

I'm trying to find this out myself.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #128 on:** August 13, 2007, 07:55:31 PM »

it's a lot more interesting topic than the OP's post, which by the way can be read in 3 other thread the OP made in case this thread has been hijacked.

ack-ack

Hoffman · « **Reply #129 on:** August 14, 2007, 12:05:40 AM »

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Originally posted by dedalos
Here is your home work now. How many Persians made it back?

The small contingent that went back to Persia with Xerxes, the rest were massacred by the now fully raised and ready Greek Army consisting of the full armies of Sparta, Thebes, Athens, etc. etc. etc.

Maybe a couple hundred made it back after the final battle, but I highly doubt many more survived the wrath of the Greeks after Xerxes sacked Athens.

Boxboy · « **Reply #130 on:** August 14, 2007, 02:41:02 PM »

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Originally posted by Hoffman
The small contingent that went back to Persia with Xerxes, the rest were massacred by the now fully raised and ready Greek Army consisting of the full armies of Sparta, Thebes, Athens, etc. etc. etc.

Maybe a couple hundred made it back after the final battle, but I highly doubt many more survived the wrath of the Greeks after Xerxes sacked Athens.

Hmmm I don't think that is correct, in fact I think he made it back with quite a few troops and it was not until Alexander the Great that the Greeks got even for Athens.

Hoffman · « **Reply #131 on:** August 15, 2007, 03:01:38 AM »

Well the Persians lost at least half of whatever Xerxes left at Platea, the rest were butchered by Alexander the 1st as they tried to retreat back to Asia Minor through Macedonia.

Masherbrum · « **Reply #132 on:** August 15, 2007, 04:38:47 AM »

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Originally posted by Hoffman
Well the Persians lost at least half of whatever Xerxes left at Platea, the rest were butchered by Alexander the 1st as they tried to retreat back to Asia Minor through Macedonia.

Correct.

Boxboy · « **Reply #133 on:** August 15, 2007, 11:31:43 AM »

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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Correct.

LOL how would YOU know

dedalos · « **Reply #134 on:** August 15, 2007, 12:47:28 PM »

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Originally posted by Hoffman
The small contingent that went back to Persia with Xerxes, the rest were massacred by the now fully raised and ready Greek Army consisting of the full armies of Sparta, Thebes, Athens, etc. etc. etc.

Maybe a couple hundred made it back after the final battle, but I highly doubt many more survived the wrath of the Greeks after Xerxes sacked Athens.

Hofman and Masherbrum win. Depending on the sources very few if any made it back. I am sure some did