Jug is Handi-capped

[Murdr]

Originally posted by Uriel
Facts:

the jug was the highest produced plane ever for a reason-

P-47 varients Number produced: 15,634
Spitfire varients:  24,351
bf109 vairents:around 35,000

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Uriel


the Jug is Superior.. deal with it..

No the pilots were, deal with that.

Ohh by the way, your sig clearly illustrates your mentality on this discussion.

Bronk

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Let me explain it in a little more simple terms.

Imagine, you are just fresh out of flight school.  You have about 30 hours total flight time and maybe 10 out of those are in the P-47 when you arrive in the ETO and posted to an operational combat squadron.  

You fly your first flight and as bad luck would have it, you're stuck in a flight of fresh pilots, with just about as much flying hours as you do.

You and your intrepid flight of young, fresh out of flight school knights of the sky are tooling around in your P-47s.  You guys feel invincible because, after all you're in the Thunderbolt, the most mighty aircraft in the sky.  The Jug outclasses everything else in the sky, nothing can out perform it.  You guys are hunters looking for prey.

As you fly along, you see in the distance a lone bf 109 at 15,000ft.  You and your cohorts adjust your goggles, firewall the throttle and bore down on the helpless lone German.  You guys can feel the kill and it's just a matter of time before the German realizes that he's absolutely no match for you, I mean, you're in the P-47, it's the uberest of the uber.  You might as well be in God mode, you're that invincible.

You guys make your pass and as you get close, the Bf 109 snap rolls under you and you look behind you only to see it level up behind your flight, flames coming from it's guns.  BOOM! Poor Red-shirt Jug Pilot #4 just got wasted.  WHAT?!?!  How can this be?  He was in a P-47!  

The rest of the flight is still in shock...the Bf 109 saddles up on another and fires...BOOM!  Red-shirt Jug Pilot #3 just bought the farm.  2 dead in less than 30 seconds...something is seriously wrong...I mean you guys are in P-47s for Jeebus sake!  This shouldn't be happening.

You  break and the other greenhorn dive to the deck.  Red-shirt Jug Pilot #2, has an epiphany...he realizes the Jug can't out maneuver a Bf 109 and his P-47 is really no match for what is a far more experienced foe in the Bf 109.  His only chance to survive is to use his better dive ability to escape.  Which he does.  Too bad though, you still think that you can out perform the  Bf 109.  So you try and go vertical, thinking that your bigger engine can carry your plane to the Heavens.  Only thing, you didn't realize that at medium to low altitudes, the Bf 109 is the superior plane and is easily able to match your vertical climb.  Before you even think of trying another maneuver, you blow up.  What you didn't realize is that the guy you were flying against is an ace with 150 kills...correction, 154 kills.

ack-ack

zOMFG!!1111!!!!   109k4 r t3h l337!!!!111!!!   Awesome post Ack.

[Benny Moore]

I would readily say that the P-47 was superior to the Me-109.  The Thunderbolt was superior because it was faster, more durable, had more range, and had more firepower.  The Juggernaught was not superior because it was more maneuverable than an Me-109 at low altitude; it wasn't.  While the real P-47 wasn't helpless versus an Me-109 at low altitude, due to the higher power ratings used by real P-47s towards the end of the war, my money would still be on the Me-109 if the pilots were equal and neither one extended.

[ssDruid]

Originally posted by Uriel
thank you for illustrating my point yet again.. the spartans were superior both in strategy and in body..
so was the Jug.. in pilots and performance.. you really dont think any group of people with any military tactics could hold the beach like the spartans did do you? It wasnt a battle field advantage, its was superior skills coupled with superior firepower with an advantage

the Jug is Superior.. deal with it.. the kill ratio says so, historic battles say so.. the pilots loved it.. it would take hundreds of rounds and get them home.. its distruction for a fighter of its time is unmatched.. it is the THUNDERBOLT

Didn't the Spartans have like 1200 other greek soldiers with them when they got slaughtered to the man in the end.

[Yknurd]

Uriel, start another thread!!! Start another thread!!!

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Yknurd
Uriel, start another thread!!! Start another thread!!!

[Meyer]

Originally posted by Widewing


In aerial combat over Europe, P-47s shot down 3,572 enemy aircraft and destroyed another 3,315 on the ground. In addition, the Jugs destroyed an estimated 9,000 locomotives, 86,000 railway cars, 68,000 trucks and 6,000 armored vehicles and tanks.  

Well, you know.. those are the claims.. actual figures are lower, for sure, pilots of all countries were over claiming in aerial combat, and even more on ground attack.

[Squire]

WW2 was not a 1 vs 1 duel. Not in the air, not at sea, and not on land.

Yet every debate about WW2 fighters pretends it was, which is why a lot of the facts get lost in the never ending trading of volleys on raw a/c data, that in the end, didnt mean nearly as much as many would like to think.

Do enough research and you find that out on your own, eventually.

From reading some of the posts I think a few could use maybe some broader material, especailly those that do nothing but quote raw performance stats as some sort of "holy-grail-of-truth".

[DaddyAck]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Yknurd
Uriel, start another thread!!! Start another thread!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LOL too funny.... because last time I checked he had what 3 or 4?

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by Uriel
THE HISTORY CHANNEL...not a reliable source?

LMAO...no

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Uriel
Facts:

the jug was the highest produced plane ever for a reason-

Originally posted by Murdr
P-47 varients Number produced: 15,634
Spitfire varients:  24,351
bf109 vairents:around 35,000

Fw190: around 20,000 produced.
Il-2: around 36,000 produced
B-24: around 19-20,000 produced
P-51: 15,875 (includes 555 of the H model)
P-40: 16,800

[Benny Moore]

What source for those P-40 production numbers?  I'm pretty sure that there were fewer than 15,000 P-40s and that the P-47 was the most-produced American fighter.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
What source for those P-40 production numbers?  I'm pretty sure that there were fewer than 15,000 P-40s and that the P-47 was the most-produced American fighter.

According to my book I'm showing this:

P-51 -  15,875
P-47 -    15,686
P-40 -  13,738

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
What source for those P-40 production numbers?  I'm pretty sure that there were fewer than 15,000 P-40s and that the P-47 was the most-produced American fighter.

Thought the P-40 number was a bit high.