AH religious Scholars

[Bolo6]

This post is copied and reposted by polular demand.

Ok last night some of you may have witnessed a convo on country channel between myself and several other players. It started with my defense of Mike Vick and by the time it ended I was a 'Pro muslim extremist'. Not really but close.  I forget who it was but there was a flyer that condems the torture of dogs by Mike Vick yet endorses the torture of humans in Gitmo. This is disturbing to me. Some also typed that Islam is a religion of hate and violence. I was blasted by several players for refuting this ignorant statement. I know the AH skies are filled with Ex military guys, but I think it is short on religious scholars. Skinard actually claimed to know the whole Qu'ran and still claimed the religion is one of violence. This is like saying the looney catholics that shoot abotion doctors make Christianity a religion of hate. I say think about this. What if the state of Texas was taken over by a bunch of people who wished only to exploit it? Would the good citizens of Dallas or Houston stand by while their country was ravaged? Would the lifelong members of the military stand idly by? No, they would become what we now call insurgents. Please consider that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Try to see things from more than just an American point of view. For the record, I am also an ex mil man, having been honorably discharged from the Army. Served in a combat infantry unit some of you may have heard of, 82nd ABN, 3/504 PIR commanded by then Big Bird Col. David Petreaus. I am not anti american, I am a citizen that believes our behavior over the last several years on the world stage has been anti American and pro corporation. Alot of people have made alot of money off of this war and it isn't me or anyone replying to this post. I wish not to offend any ardent patriots out there, I only wish to refute the ignorance that I saw and experienced. This may make me an unpopular guy, but doing and saying the right thing can do that sometimes. See history on Ghandi and Dr. King. That is all for now. I look forward to the replies.

Bolo6 Actual, out.

[Hornet33]

I'm not going to get into a whole big thing here but I do have one question for you. Why would you defend Vick??? He's already said he's guilty. The only reason he coped the plea he did was because the prosecuters were getting ready to dump a few more federal charges on him.

Real simple here. He broke the law. He got caught. He admitted his guilt. He's going to jail. He's a piece of trash.

I don't live to far away from where he grew up. He got out of the hood and had a chance to make something of himself, but he chose to continue living the life of a gangsta and figured that because he has money now and is a football star he could get away with it. Look at the people he hangs around with. All of his co-defendants had police records a mile long.

This is someone who is supposed to be a role model. The truth though is he is nothing but a punk thug. I hope the judge throws the book at him and the NFL better ban his sorry bellybutton for life.

[john9001]

"the torture of humans in Gitmo"

please define the torture of humans in Gitmo.

[Bolo6]

There is so much anger in your reply. What did he ever do to you? I am not defending his actions at all, they are and were criminal. He will do his time. He surrounded himself with disloyal hooligans. But you did not address why the FBI found it necessary to investigate him. As far as how he grew up, I cant say but I know the area and they don't call it bad news for nothing. Ban him for life? What he did has nothing to do with his football playing and as far as role models, that job belongs to parents.

[Bolo6]

Originally posted by john9001
"the torture of humans in Gitmo"

please define the torture of humans in Gitmo.

one word. Rendition. Would you want it to happen to you or anyone you love?

[Tiger]

I agree that athletes and movie stars should not be role models.

As far as the "ban for life"  that can happen because of his gambling on the fights.  The NFL has some obscure little known about policy making any illegal gambling a lifetime banable offense.

[Tiger]

Originally posted by Bolo6
one word. Rendition. Would you want it to happen to you or anyone you love?

If myself or someone I loved was a terrorist, we'd probably know what we were getting into and expect such consequences.

Now think about it this way...  if this so called 'torture' got information that prevented a group of terrorists from flying a plane into YOUR house, would you still think it was a bad policy?

[Bolo6]

If you know about interrogation you know that anyone can be made to say anything. The inquisition was very much the same. The situation at Gitmo has created far more terrorist than it has found. Lets hope that one day the label of terrorist is not placed on you or I.

[Bolo6]

Originally posted by Tiger
If myself or someone I loved was a terrorist, we'd probably know what we were getting into and expect such consequences.

Now think about it this way...  if this so called 'torture' got information that prevented a group of terrorists from flying a plane into YOUR house, would you still think it was a bad policy?

Just to be clear you are condoning the torture of Human beings as a means to an end?
 
Would your opinion be affected if the people being tortured weren't brown?

[Tango]

Originally posted by Bolo6
Some also typed that Islam is a religion of hate and violence. I was blasted by several players for refuting this ignorant statement.

If its not, then WHY have the leaders of Islam around the world not spoken out against Al Queda, Hamas, etc? Its a barbaric religion that is used to keep its people in the Dark Ages.

[Donzo]

Originally posted by Bolo6
But you did not address why the FBI found it necessary to investigate him.

Maybe because he committed a federal crime?

[Ghosth]

First things first, Vick got what he had coming to him. IMO he should never be allowed to play pro ball ever. I'm sorry but dogfights and cockfights should have been left back in the 19th century. There is simply no place for them in todays civilization. He did the crime, he admitted his guilt, hang him high. In that respect public figures are expected to be role models. He should have held himself to a higher standard.

Next, about religion and violence. You think the Catholic extremists in Northern Ireland didn't give their religion a bad name? Same with the Muslim extremists now.

The problem with the fundamental Islamic groups is that they are all calling for the destruction of OUR country. To me thats no different than a man standing across the street swearing he's going to burn my house down. OK you got my attention, you may not enjoy what I do to get rid of you and your threat, but YOU started with the threats. In this case, they did bring the house down, well the WTC anyway. So if bad things happen to them, they had it coming.

Traditional Islam says its a religion of peace, yet entire country's were converted by the sword. Convert or die, right here, right now.  Not that I'm saying Christianity was much better, because it wasn't.  But the vast majority of those killed by the Christians happened back in the middle ages. Islamic terrorist groups are active now, and they will continue to try to pull down our house.

Now, If I heard on CNN once a week that traditional Islam groups, scholars, etc are not supporting the radical elements. That they are NOT being sheltered by normal people of this faith, that would make a difference.
However I have seen no proof that 9 out of 10 people of that faith deplore and denounce what the extremists are doing.

And no I'm not a religious scholar, but anyone who takes their side in this is
stepping mighty close to the edge of treason and worse.

I will agree that that this country has gone to  the multinational corporations.
And that this is going to have far reaching impacts in our lives for decades.
But on the other 2 issues I think you should rethink your stance.

[Donzo]

Originally posted by Bolo6
Ban him for life? What he did has nothing to do with his football playing and as far as role models, that job belongs to parents.

Yes, ban him for life.

The NFL is a business and any smart business person would not want their image tarnished by the likes of Vick.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Bolo6
If you know about interrogation you know that anyone can be made to say anything.

And if you knew anything about interrogation you know that "stress and duress"-methods are very useful, they work, and they are used alot.
"Stress and duress"-methods are considered torture by Amnesty, HRW and the rest of that ilk.

The inquisition was very much the same.

Not really no. Unless of cource you are of the opinion that "sitting uncomfortably in a cold room" or "having a female interrogator sitting in your lap" is the same as "getting poked with red hot iron" or "being locked into a barrel with spikes pointing inwards and then rolled down a hill".

Your hyperbole makes it very hard to take you seriously. Consider that in the future.

The situation at Gitmo has created far more terrorist than it has found.[/B]

Ridiculous statement completely grabbed out of thin air.

[Maverick]

Comparing gitmo to dog fighting is like comparing apples to sardines. How many prisoners at gitmo were forced to fight to the death as a means of entertainment for the handlers? How many were forced to fight to the death as a means of wagering? How many were bred and raised at gitmo tfor the purpose of fighting to the death?

Don't like "torture", fine. At least use a valid comparison here. These 2 examples don't fit the bill.

A more valid comparison might be the raising and training of young children to be suicide bombers by their parents and religious leaders.