Author Topic: AH religious Scholars  (Read 3045 times)

Offline Bolo6

  • Parolee
  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
AH religious Scholars
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2007, 12:15:45 PM »
Ghosth,
I appreciate your reply. The Vick situation, I concede.
Fundamental Islamic groups are a minority. Doing the things that we are doing only bolsters their ranks. As far as 9/11, we were asleep at the wheel. No less than three opportunities existed for us to avert that disaster. There is a book called "The Man who Warned America" by Murray Weiss. Check it out. I see it like this, you dont get mad at the dog for crapping in your yard, it is what dogs do. You don't let dog get into your yard.

As far as what we hear on CNN, I take it with a grain of salt. There is no way we know what the average muslim is thinking anymore than they know what we are thinking. I bet its alot of the same things however. Food, shelter and education for our kids. The answer to this problem is dialouge. How many muslims do you know personally that you have discussed this with? Do you care enough about it to do that? you will only find out what 9 out of 10 muslims think if you talk to 9 out of 10 muslims.

Why is it that whenever someone takes a different look at this debate, that are labeled treasonous or anti american? We were founded on the values of dissent and disscussion. I love this country despite the fact that it has never treated my people with the dignity and respect that they deserve, But that is a different topic.

Offline Bolo6

  • Parolee
  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
AH religious Scholars
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2007, 12:20:08 PM »
Not really no. Unless of cource you are of the opinion that "sitting uncomfortably in a cold room" or "having a female interrogator sitting in your lap" is the same as "getting poked with red hot iron" or "being locked into a barrel with spikes pointing inwards and then rolled down a hill".


Do you really think this was the extent of it? Isn't the idea of torture itself anti american? You are making distinctions about torture techniques. I think that is very closed minded. Would you want you or any of you loved ones questioned using "stress and duress techniques?

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13958
AH religious Scholars
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2007, 12:25:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bolo6
Not really no. Unless of cource you are of the opinion that "sitting uncomfortably in a cold room" or "having a female interrogator sitting in your lap" is the same as "getting poked with red hot iron" or "being locked into a barrel with spikes pointing inwards and then rolled down a hill".


Do you really think this was the extent of it? Isn't the idea of torture itself anti american? You are making distinctions about torture techniques. I think that is very closed minded. Would you want you or any of you loved ones questioned using "stress and duress techniques?


Stress and duress techniques as you are using the terms have been accepted means of gaining information for citizens accused of crimes in this country. Depending on who's definition you want to use, merely raising your voice is considered stress and refusing to allow a person to smoke in a confined room can be considered duress. A considerable number of interrogation techniques would be labeled as "torture" by folks who have a specific agenda, that does not make it true however.

If you want to discuss it you would do well to be specific. Generalities are a waste of time.
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline Hortlund

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4690
AH religious Scholars
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2007, 12:26:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bolo6
Do you really think this was the extent of it?

At gitmo? Yes.

Quote
Isn't the idea of torture itself anti american?

LOL no.
Quote

You are making distinctions about torture techniques. I think that is very closed minded.

Actually no, I am saying that certain stuff is not really torture at all...except in the minds of various hysterical loonies like HRW or amnesty-members.

Can you really consider having a female sitting in your lap while questioning you torture? Or to be forced to sit in a cold room for 20 hours...is that torture? Its ridiculous, and it waters down the meaning of the word "torture" to mean exactly nothing, or everything.

Quote

Would you want you or any of you loved ones questioned using "stress and duress techniques?

If they were in the business of training, arming or funding suicide bombers targeting women and children, yes. Stress and duress is not lethal, its not even considered grave bodily harm.

Offline Bolo6

  • Parolee
  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
AH religious Scholars
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2007, 12:30:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Stress and duress techniques as you are using the terms have been accepted means of gaining information for citizens accused of crimes in this country. Depending on who's definition you want to use, merely raising your voice is considered stress and refusing to allow a person to smoke in a confined room can be considered duress. A considerable number of interrogation techniques would be labeled as "torture" by folks who have a specific agenda, that does not make it true however.

If you want to discuss it you would do well to be specific. Generalities are a waste of time.


A comparison of police interrogations where suspect have rights such as Miranda and the secret going on in Gitmo where detainees have NO RIGHTS, not even under the Geneva convention, is way off base. I you wish to discuss it, you would do well to compare two like situations.

Offline Tango

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1421
      • http://www.simpilots.org/
AH religious Scholars
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2007, 12:31:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bolo6
you will only find out what 9 out of 10 muslims think if you talk to 9 out of 10 muslims.


And the Koran says never speak the truth to an infidel. So how do we [the infidels] know when the 9 we are are talking to is telling us the truth?
Tango78
78th Razorbacks
Historical Air Combat Group

Offline Bolo6

  • Parolee
  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
AH religious Scholars
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2007, 12:32:11 PM »
Hortlund how much time have you spent interrogating detainess at gitmo?

Offline Bolo6

  • Parolee
  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
AH religious Scholars
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2007, 12:33:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tango
And the Koran says never speak the truth to an infidel. So how do we [the infidels] know when the 9 we are are talking to is telling us the truth?



Please tell me what sura it says this so I can read the verse for myself.Where did u get this information?

Offline Hortlund

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4690
AH religious Scholars
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2007, 12:34:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bolo6
Hortlund how much time have you spent interrogating detainess at gitmo?


About the same amount of time that you actually made sense in this thread.

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13958
AH religious Scholars
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2007, 12:38:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bolo6
A comparison of police interrogations where suspect have rights such as Miranda and the secret going on in Gitmo where detainees have NO RIGHTS, not even under the Geneva convention, is way off base. I you wish to discuss it, you would do well to compare two like situations.


You raised the comparison here in the thread. As already noted earlier, the original comparison is not valid. You then brought up a secondary comparison yet refuse to define your parameters, particularly in regards to the term "torture" as well as "stress" and "duress".

Once you have done that there is room to discuss it. Until then all you have are undefined generalities being discusssed as specifics.
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline Bolo6

  • Parolee
  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
AH religious Scholars
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2007, 12:39:54 PM »
So that means you weren't there yet you profess to know what is going on there. How can you? You are talking put of your but.

Offline Airscrew

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4808
AH religious Scholars
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2007, 12:40:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bolo6
I love this country despite the fact that it has never treated my people with the dignity and respect that they deserve, But that is a different topic.

what is "My People".  Somehow that seems out of place, you're an american? but you have "people"

Offline Hortlund

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4690
AH religious Scholars
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2007, 12:42:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bolo6
So that means you weren't there yet you profess to know what is going on there. How can you? You are talking put of your but.

This is so dumb I dont even know where to begin.

Have you been at Guantanamo interrogating prisoners?

Offline Bolo6

  • Parolee
  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
AH religious Scholars
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2007, 12:43:41 PM »
I never said that I was or indicated anything to that point.

Offline Tango

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1421
      • http://www.simpilots.org/
AH religious Scholars
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2007, 12:44:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bolo6
Where did u get this information?


http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18733

The Koran, by contrast, teaches that it’s OK to lie to infidels if it furthers the cause of Islam, that nation states have no legitimacy, that the only legitimate nation is the nation of Islam, which has no territorial boundaries; and those who do not submit to the will of Allah should be condemned to a life of dhimmitude (second class citizenry).
Tango78
78th Razorbacks
Historical Air Combat Group