Author Topic: Russia Tests 'World's Most Powerful Non-Nuclear Bomb'  (Read 2116 times)

Offline lasersailor184

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Russia Tests 'World's Most Powerful Non-Nuclear Bomb'
« Reply #60 on: September 22, 2007, 06:11:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
Who were the allies fighting? What were their losses while at it?
Nothing compareable to i.e. the fights the USA is doing today I'm afraid.
WW2 ended in a total war. Pancaking Berlin was one thing. Pancaking Dresden was one thing. Setting Hamburg as well as Tokyo ablaze was one thing.
Bear in mind that it was a return, since the Axis started the methods already in September 1939.
From the high command view on the W-allied side, looking into their information, the Nazis had to be stopped. Precision bombing had been applied, but with insufficint effects. The Nazis themselves had however demonstrated how area bombing could buckle a nation.
Had they mercy? Well, for the Germans as folks, not much. It was a "Me or You" situation.
As for the Russians, they were not a part of the Geneva convention, so from day one in the eastern front, the Germans treated the Russians as a butcher does his cattle. They got it in return, - well, the Geneva convention works both ways.
So, - raising sticks, or not, - or having one, - all makes a difference. In war, we do indeed have a demonstration of victors who behaved better than the conquered ones, which actually started the fight with absolute brutality.
That is history, and to honour the slain we should learn from it.


I highlighted the part where you yourself have said that I am right.
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Offline Tango

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« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2007, 08:23:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Back in 1988 it was silly to refuse from Norvegian assistance when Komsomolets sunk... But in case of Kursk - no one could help. It was quite obvious.


So instead of accepting assistance you guys decided to give up on them? Even a slim chance is better than no chance.
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Offline Boroda

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« Reply #62 on: September 22, 2007, 08:31:13 PM »
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Originally posted by Tango
So instead of accepting assistance you guys decided to give up on them? Even a slim chance is better than no chance.


Life of a few dozens compared to 300 millions.

Noone knows if Norwegians could help Komsomolets's crew. I only said that in case of Kursk it was obvious that noone could survive, while in 1988 Norwegians probably could save a handfull of people more, but no one wanted to play with the enemy, I hope you understand what could happen to Soviet servicemen on NATO ships, and it wasn't up to Norwegians at all... "It's a WAR, brother!..."

Offline FrodeMk3

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« Reply #63 on: September 22, 2007, 08:33:30 PM »
Origanally posted by Angus

Who were the allies fighting? What were their losses while at it?
Nothing compareable to i.e. the fights the USA is doing today I'm afraid.
WW2 ended in a total war. Pancaking Berlin was one thing. Pancaking Dresden was one thing. Setting Hamburg as well as Tokyo ablaze was one thing.
Bear in mind that it was a return, since the Axis started the methods already in September 1939.
From the high command view on the W-allied side, looking into their information, the Nazis had to be stopped. Precision bombing had been applied, but with insufficint effects. The Nazis themselves had however demonstrated how area bombing could buckle a nation.
Had they mercy? Well, for the Germans as folks, not much. It was a "Me or You" situation.
As for the Russians, they were not a part of the Geneva convention, so from day one in the eastern front, the Germans treated the Russians as a butcher does his cattle. They got it in return, - well, the Geneva convention works both ways.
So, - raising sticks, or not, - or having one, - all makes a difference. In war, we do indeed have a demonstration of victors who behaved better than the conquered ones, which actually started the fight with absolute brutality.
That is history, and to honour the slain we should learn from it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Quote
I highlighted the part where you yourself have said that I am right.


LS, The whole problem is, is that it is not a nation that is being fought, but a belief.

Offline Angus

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« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2007, 04:50:20 AM »
And, - today's precicion bombing is quite something different than what it was in the 1940's.
Area bombing was applied since precision was not too well possible. Ironically, the defence, - Flak, - only made accurate bombing more difficult, - thereby increasing the chanches of a really big strike.
So, Laser, I say you are wrong, and that you mix up orqanges and apples.
There is very far between the possibilities of the 40's and today in the business of lobbing a bomb into a toilet bowl, and there is very much difference in fighting a whole nation rather than certain people with a certain belief hiding in a crowd.
Of course you might then want to support the way the Nazis used to suppress resistance people from killing their troops, -  for each soldier you round up 20 people from the nearest bus or whatever and shoot them all...
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Tango

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« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2007, 09:24:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Life of a few dozens compared to 300 millions.


So how much is a human life worth to you?
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Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2007, 10:51:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tango
So how much is a human life worth to you?


Obviously not worth enough to accept help and save
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #67 on: September 23, 2007, 01:02:58 PM »
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Originally posted by Tango
So how much is a human life worth to you?


Calculating everything in dollars, aren't you?...

Labor of millions was put into this boat, into educating and training of the crew, making it unacceptable to fall into enemy hands.

I think it's pretty obvious. American authorities under such circumstances will probably behave worse.

BTW, do you understand what accident I am speaking about?

Offline JB88

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« Reply #68 on: September 23, 2007, 01:11:02 PM »
having grown up in the 80's amidst the cold war, i still find it fascinating that i can pull up this forum and read boroda's thoughts on these matters with such ease.

night and day by my recollection.
this thread is doomed.
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Offline Sketch

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« Reply #69 on: September 23, 2007, 01:19:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
i think the US is going toward smaller/smarter bombs for more bombing precision.


Correct here John.... USAF is going with SDB's (Small Diameter Bombs).  I work with these here at SJAFB in N.C.
The biggest thing now is collateral damage and I guess the government got sick of flattening an entire city block for one building.  
SDB's
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Offline Boroda

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« Reply #70 on: September 23, 2007, 01:49:37 PM »
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Originally posted by JB88
having grown up in the 80's amidst the cold war, i still find it fascinating that i can pull up this forum and read boroda's thoughts on these matters with such ease.

night and day by my recollection.


Unfortunately nothing really changed since good old 80s, just the communication became easier.

It's hard to expect humanism from military.

Offline JB88

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« Reply #71 on: September 23, 2007, 01:52:30 PM »
yes, but i do expect it from the humans who set militaries in motion.

:)
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Offline Boroda

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« Reply #72 on: September 23, 2007, 02:06:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
yes, but i do expect it from the humans who set militaries in motion.

:)


Unfortunately, your expectations are never met by your own authorities.

OTOH we see a beautiful parade of Western military being over-humanistic towards themselves.

What happened in my city in October 1993 was enough for me concerning "fighting for democracy", and I sincerely hope we'll never see Russian soldiers surrendering like that British in Iranian waters, or Orion crew that landed at Hainan after a mid-air collision.

Offline Tango

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« Reply #73 on: September 23, 2007, 02:57:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Calculating everything in dollars, aren't you?...


We don't calculate human lives in dollars. If help was offered its usually accepted.
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Offline Wolfala

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« Reply #74 on: September 23, 2007, 03:46:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tango
We don't calculate human lives in dollars. If help was offered its usually accepted.



Tell my insurance company that and they will laugh themselves silly.


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