Hillary care makes a comeback.........

[myelo]

Originally posted by Gunthr
i want my health care provided by people who are motivated by profit... people who have some incentive to give me good service.

The problem is someone has wedged their fatass in between the provider of the service (doctors and hospitals) and the consumer of the services (you).

That fatass is the insurance company. And they want their piece of the profit too. They get this by:

1. Charging you more than they pay the providers -- about 12% more. This pays for their huge bureaucracy, sales and marketing, and return to shareholders. This compares to about 3% overhead for Medicare and Canada's NHI.

2. Limiting which services they will pay for and how much they will pay for each service. In other words the insurance company will decide which procedures you need, not you and the doctor.

3. Trying to avoid sick people and their pesky tendency to actually need the health care they are paying for.

[myelo]

Originally posted by Eagler
ayes, imagine the DMV, real winners working there - that is your tax dollars at work..

A more valid comparison would be, imagine Medicare or the VHA.

Medicare is a single payer system using private providers and veterans use a single-payer government run health care system.

[Trell]

Originally posted by FBBone
OK............I'll play devil's advocate here and agree with you.  What then do you propose we do to fix it?  Lets try for a solution that isn't a mandate for everyone, or another govt hand out.

That's what we have now,  that's why we have prices going up so much..


How about remove Medicare Medicaid, and the VA,  create a single group that does all 3, WHy have the overhead of 3 companies rather then one. After they do that they can start adding everyone else to it.
Use collective  bargaining for all drugs to keep drug prices down rather then the pork spending that is happening with the federal drug program.  The VA can do this but Medicare cant? wtf is that.
We make it illegal for people to go to Canada for drugs  WHY?????

Remove the whole homeland security dept that they have created that does nothing but duplicate work and cost.
All government employees from the president to the dog catcher would be taking a 10% pay cut.  From now own would be getting a 401k for retirement like the rest of the country. and they would be enrolled into the national healthcare.

[sluggish]

Wife works for a "for profit" oxygen provider.  The biggest thing that is stressed at their monthly meetings is new patients.  That is, new patients regardless of their actual need for in-home oxygen care.  The next most important thing is oxygen use for said patients.  The goal of the company is to deliver more oxygen to more patients whether they need it or not.

The mother lode is hit when then company's in-house "respiratory therapist" (also salesperson) gets a retirement home to sign an exclusive contract with said company.  The "respiratory therapist" then systematically goes from room to room and "diagnoses" each person with an illness requiring 24-hour oxygen.

I hate the idea of socialism but pure capitalism left unchecked chews people up and spits them out.  Doesn't anyone remember the robber barons?

[indy007]

 WASHINGTON - Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Tuesday that a mandate requiring every American to purchase health insurance was the only way to achieve universal health care but she rejected the notion of punitive measures to force individuals into the health care system.
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"At this point, we don't have anything punitive that we have proposed," the presidential candidate said in an interview with The Associated Press. "We're providing incentives and tax credits which we think will be very attractive to the vast majority of Americans."

She said she could envision a day when "you have to show proof to your employer that you're insured as a part of the job interview — like when your kid goes to school and has to show proof of vaccination," but said such details would be worked out through negotiations with Congress.

[lazs2]

you don't want health care costs to rise above 1990 levels say?    All you got to do is put an end to the malpractice insurance...  make it impossible to sue a doctor who was... trying to help you and made a mistake.

then.... make it so that no new expensive treatment was available... new expensive drugs for cancer... whatever... simply do not exist... no costly transplants that couldn't be done in the 1950's say...  any advance in medicine should be ignored.

course... if America goes to socialized medicine.. the rate of medical advances will slow considerably and... things like MRI machines will eventually wear out and not be replaced.   the best surgeons will die off soon enough and we won't be doing any of those tricky operations with the $10 per hour guys.

lazs

[Gunthr]

The problem is someone has wedged their fatass in between the provider of the service (doctors and hospitals) and the consumer of the services (you). - Myelo

the difference is, I can fire their fatasses.  you can't fire the VA.

[myelo]

Originally posted by Gunthr
the difference is, I can fire their fatasses.

Oh yeah? When?

They provide great service as long as you're paying your premiums and not having any medical problems. It's when you get a major illness and they start dictating care that the problems start. At that point, sure you can fire them -- they would love that.

Then try and get new insurance now that you've been diagnosed with a major illness and lemme know how that works for you.

[Hap]

Originally posted by Eagler
and with the gov running the show this will change how?

Eag, it's obvious.  It will be lousy and free instead of lousy and expensive.

[Maverick]

Gunther,

It seems you have an axe to grind regarding this. In addition to that you have a faulty keyboard. It seems to lack capitals.

As far as my step daughters job, she's already working on that and getting her nursing degree while still working part time making sure medical claims get paid instead of sitting in a computer que.

The govt. is already involved in outside medical care and insurance. The coverage choices I have is the only option I have through my retirement with the City. The state retirement system provides only one company option with 2 plans. All of these are supplied by for profit companies using a bid process. The one nice thing about it is that the govt. entities that are contracting with them also have leverage to insure they provide the coverage they promise and monitor it.

A for profit company is not necessarily motivated to provide optimal service, just continued dividends to their stockholders. The profit motive is simply no guarantee of service. Outside monitoring is a better way to insure that folks get the care they need and not the good nature of a for profit company.

[FBBone]

Originally posted by Trell
That's what we have now,  that's why we have prices going up so much..


How about remove Medicare Medicaid, and the VA,  create a single group that does all 3, WHy have the overhead of 3 companies rather then one. After they do that they can start adding everyone else to it.
Use collective  bargaining for all drugs to keep drug prices down rather then the pork spending that is happening with the federal drug program.  The VA can do this but Medicare cant? wtf is that.
We make it illegal for people to go to Canada for drugs  WHY?????

Remove the whole homeland security dept that they have created that does nothing but duplicate work and cost.
All government employees from the president to the dog catcher would be taking a 10% pay cut.  From now own would be getting a 401k for retirement like the rest of the country. and they would be enrolled into the national healthcare.

Prices are going up because:

1.  Research - for medications and illness.  Its expensive.  Bottom line.  Do you do your job for free?  Or maybe below market value?  Why would you expect the people who are making great strides in medicine to?  Doctors and nurses spend a GREAT deal of time learning and perfecting their trade, They SHOULD be compensated well.  Which leads me to...........

2.  Lawyers - Too many class action suits and get rich quick malpractice suits.  Install caps on court awarded settlements and that would take care of a great many ambulance chasers.  Lets take away THEIR profit margin.  Also, theres no reason a person should be awarded settlements FAR in excess of their lifetime earning potential.  This should infuriate people, it does me.

3.  Hospitals - What can they do?  They can't turn out illegals who use the ER as the family doctor when little Pedro or Juanita is ill, or needing to be born for that matter.  They can't refuse service to those who can't pay.  They can't refuse service to those who WON'T pay.  So that cost gets passed along to those who will pay, or their insurance company, in the form if $23.00 aspirin and the like.  

4.  Insurance - Its really what were talking about here, right?  But this is for the Doctors themselves.  Malpractice insurance is ridiculously expensive, due in large part to the aforementioned ambulance chasers.  The price the docs pay is passed directly on th the consumer, or their insurance.  

5.  Insurance - For us this time.  Insurance is just like gambling, for the insurance companies, plain and simple.  They roll the dice, hoping to sell you a product that you won't use.  Only difference is that when they lose, we lose too.  They lose when some schmuck insists on going to the Dr. or the ER for a frickin cold or the flu.  Or when parents take little Tommy and Susie in for the slightest cough or elevation in temperature.  Or when the state has minimum requirements on coverage, that you can't opt out of.  Let me dump some of the coverages that I'll never use and perhaps my premium will go down.  If not, I'll go to the next insurance company and shop my business around.

6.  Shady Practices - I've seen a few here regal us with stories of their spouses or children working for the dirty S.O.B.s that rob patients and insurance companies blind, but have they done anything to prevent it?  Probably not, it's paying their salaries so they'll just hush up about it rather than clean the filth up.  If you know of dirty dealings and don't report them, you are part of the problem and in my opinion have no right to complain about the high cost of insurance.  Hypocrites, period.

You want to cut someones pay by 10% just because he works for the govt?  Why?  Because all govt workers get paid above scale?  Think again, most don't.  You also want to take away PERA.  Well, anyone getting it now is grandfathered.  Take that along with 10% and its good luck finding the people to run your govt hospitals!

You want to consolidate 3 bureaucracies into one to save money?  OK.  I'm for it.  But you also want to have the govt eventually include everyone.  To that I'd say "no, thanks".

[Gunthr]

   quote:Originally posted by Gunthr
    the difference is, I can fire their fatasses.



Oh yeah? When?

They provide great service as long as you're paying your premiums and not having any medical problems. It's when you get a major illness and they start dictating care that the problems start. At that point, sure you can fire them -- they would love that.

Then try and get new insurance now that you've been diagnosed with a major illness and lemme know how that works for you. - Myelo

seems to me that it is our responsibility to read about the coverage before you buy into it, Myelo.  But i'm not discounting that once retired, people who have committed to their insurance company will have to stay with them once diagnosed with a major illness.  that is how its always been.

[Gunthr]

It seems you have an axe to grind regarding this. In addition to that you have a faulty keyboard. It seems to lack capitals.

As far as my step daughters job, she's already working on that and getting her nursing degree while still working part time making sure medical claims get paid instead of sitting in a computer que.

The govt. is already involved in outside medical care and insurance. The coverage choices I have is the only option I have through my retirement with the City. The state retirement system provides only one company option with 2 plans. All of these are supplied by for profit companies using a bid process. The one nice thing about it is that the govt. entities that are contracting with them also have leverage to insure they provide the coverage they promise and monitor it.

A for profit company is not necessarily motivated to provide optimal service, just continued dividends to their stockholders. The profit motive is simply no guarantee of service. Outside monitoring is a better way to insure that folks get the care they need and not the good nature of a for profit company. - Mav

i didn 't want to mention it Maverick, but you are hyphen-impaired (ie, for profit should be "for-profit")

anyways, it occurred to me that you and maybe Myelo are retired, and I hadn't thought about this issue from that standpoint...  even so, I am convinced about one thing; government will muck this up.  i see it as a slippery slope that leads to less liberty for Americans, and a ton of new laws on the books.  that is the only axe i'm grinding...

[Maverick]

Gunther,

I have the exact same health plan that the still employed folks have. It's one of the benefits under the retirement plan and contract I had with the city as an employee. So my perspective is the same.

I don't trust a company like health insurance or any other kind of insurance, to pay what they promise when you purchase the coverage. I've seen too many insurance companies do everything they can to avoid paying a claim to preserve their precious profit. It's darn skippy that I want oversight over their activities. That won't happen depending on their good will.

[Gunthr]

i'm surprized that you think universal health care is the answer, Maverick.  just on principle, i think its nuts to welcome a monumentally huge bureaucracy and a ton of new laws and tens of thousands of new federal employees all with their fingers in the pot so deep we will never get the pot back... and then only to have the kind of care that you get at the DMV from people who have jobs for life, and who know that you don't have any other choice but to eat whatever they serve you, like it or not, from a government organization that has no competition or incentive to perform.  that is a recipe for disaster.  you won't have more oversite, Mav, you will have far far less.  

just my.02... i know diff people have different situations.  but i think its bad for the country.