Running

[B@tfinkV]

Originally posted by WaRLoCkL
Hmm so 5/100 is acceptible?? sorry i think i would extend out to about 1.5k and immelmen head on with him, dive under his fire(cause u know hes going to shoot) then loop over with the energy i have and BOOM!!!

when did we throw flying smart out the window? sorry batfink but practicing a 1/100 chance is not acceptible, but doing a manuver that would most certainly work seems more feesable.
 

i think you missed my point warlock.

next time maybe it becomes 5/100 chance, then next time its 10/100 chance. after just a few short months you will find that your 1/100 chance uber manouver has become a 75/100 chance easy reversal kill.

im not really bothered to persue this much further though..

[Tilt]

I usually find that  by the time I am out manouvered to the point that I have given bogie my 6, I pretty much know the capabilities of my opponent.

If I can see some silly error I made putting him there then I may try to force the over shoot.

If I figure that I am odds against on making him overshoot then then my Lavochkins throttle hits the wall and I carry out such evasives that allows me to "reset the fight".

In my mind he won the first bought of ACM and I am going to come back and try for the 2nd using every advantage I can muster whilst keeping every mistake to a minimum.

I have often "Run" all the way..........particularly when outnumbered and the result of  me reversing is very  (and unfortunately) predictable.

My Lavochkin is perfect for it........... it can engage and disengage  as I wish and I dont wish to get stuck in silly (Low E) turn fights with ac much more suited to them.

If your opponent runs you won the engage ment interms of manouvering.............if the acm is all that matters what more do you want and who else has to know?

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by WaRLoCkL
Also the only thing this proves is that I am the closest Rook to the enemy, which means I was the FIRST TO ENGAGE, I did not wait to cherry pick.

Befor u call me delusional, look at my plane and how far away it is from corky. Even in the SECOND frame I AM STILL THE CLOSEST ROOK!!! so how did i RUN!!!!!!!!!. All this screen shot really shows is a group of p38s foolishly engaing high cons without waiting for backup, that does not make me a gang tard or vulcher, makes me smart for taking a target of oppurtunity, better to kill them now, than to let them fly for a EVEN fight to end up killing more of us.

LOL I give.  For what it's worth Warlock, you didn't kill me that flight or Skyrock for that matter.

Boxboy came through in his 1C and got us both.  Those big cannons hurt.

You didn't engage first, the Tempest did by making a high speed run from our 6 O'Clock.  He missed but he got folks breaking while he went at lighting speed back up again so he coud BnZ some more.

You seem to think I called you a ganger.  I never called you that, Skyrock did.  You seem to be trying to convince folks of something that no one is arguing with you about.

You fly it your way, I'll fly it mine.  As long as you are having fun and I am to, who cares?

That doesn't make you a better or smarter pilot.  We're flying cartoon planes for heaven's sake.   Relax before you burst

It's just not that big a deal.

[ColKLink]

Who cares what the enemy thinks? Everyone knows we're not running a popularity contest? right?? extend,........ just when he gives up on you as a runner, , come back and zap him.

[Ghastly]

When to reverse depends largely upon aircraft match up and relative speeds.  In the F4U, if I can reverse at 800 yards and place a better turning in my forward quarter for more than a split second, I'm way too slow to begin with...

(and probably going to get taken out regardless if he's any kind of a decent stick)

[megadud]

Originally posted by WaRLoCkL
Dont listen to this retard, hes one of the ones that wants to fight HIS fight they they were talking about. The whole point to winning a dogfight is to control the fight and make him do what u want him to do. So of coarse people are going to get ill when u wont do what they want u to do and then die.

That is where vulch tard, hoer, and runner all come into play, Fact is it is a 3d world and anything can happen.

Fight your own fight, remember dead men really cant talk back anyways;)

dear warlockl, shush, you suck,

Dear Everyone else,

i'm right.

actually someone else is riht, play your way even if your way is boring and annoying. BUT! you should try just diving into a group of reds and furballing it up once, you'll love it. and you will notice yourself getting better and love it even more. try it

EDIT: don't run that is stupid, it's a game you get anothe plane, fight someway

[AAolds]

Fight your fight and let the chips fall where they may on 200.  If 200 gets annoying, you can always detune and if PMs come in, squelch works too.

[VonMessa]

Originally posted by WaRLoCkL
Next is the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA i was talking about.

Apparently skyrock must be tripping and falling into my bullets or something.

I guess I fly so wrong that HTC should take away my pilots license.

Seems to me thats what some of these, U SHOULD FLY THE WAY I TELL U TO guys thing.

Once again WWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

oh and I forgot WAAAAAAAAAA


P.S. WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA stop whining about how someone else flys, seems to me it works cause u cant do anything to stop me.

With due respect to all, I believe that Lusche may have a cartoon copyright on the whole WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH thing.

[BaldEagl]

First lets talk "Foolishly agressive":

I've flown victorious out of many me on 2's and me on 3's, a couple of me on 4's and one me on 5.  I've never lived to tell about anything higher than that although I've had LOTS of practice in me on 10+'s.  I used to dive into these joyfully all the time.  Reason has toned down this response.

So, for me at least, my upper limit seems to be me on 3 if I want at least a decent chance of winning and flying away.  If I engage in a me on 3 in the LWA's I can almost be assured it will become a me on 4-5 pretty quickly giving me plenty of "practice".

Bat suggests that I should keep playing at odds greater than me on 3.  Bat, I bet even you have a limit.  I doubt you or any of the better sticks will get out of a you on 10 alive (at least not very often).

So, the key to "foolishly agressive" is different for everyone given their past experience, skill levels and plane match-ups (for example I might pass on a me on 2 where the 2 consist of a speed burner and a turner because together they limit my options while I might take on 4 Pony's in a Spit if I can get them turning).

I say, know your own limits and push them within reason.

Now reversals:

I used to fly Spits only (and still do a fair amount).  Reversing at 800-1000 might even be too late in a Spit with E.  I'd prefer to reverse at 600-800.  

In a Zeke or a Hurri that reverse can be brought in even further.

A 190A-8 is a very different matter.  190's, as everyone knows, barely turn.  A reversal at 1K with good E can be done.  Without E it's a suicide ticket.  With a co-E plane chasing you you need 3-3.5K to bring the nose around nose-to-nose, therfore, a reverse to aquire their 6 has to be more in the neighborhood of 1.5-1.75K... further if the opponent is in a better turner.

Pinning a generic number on a reversal without taking into account plane match-ups and E states just isn't logical.  Co-E a better turning plane can reverse sooner than a lesser turning plane.  Simple physics at work.  Bat, I'd LOVE to see you reverse a 190 800 out in front of me in a Hurri co-E.

All of that said, I do love the Internet bravado on these BBs.

[WaRLoCkL]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Warlock, you'd have less of a hard time on this board if you'd just be honest, even with yourself.  You killed some  guys that were already engaged.  This means you cherry picked them....... so what?  

 In a furball of say,  30 on 30, it would be a miracle of Godlike proportions if all planes managed to match up into convenient 1v1's. That's just not the way it works in the MA.  The naked, honest truth of it is that just about everyone in a furball is trying to "pick" an enemy.

Take a good look next time you are in a furball:  this guy is going after that guy who is trying to kill another guy who is on the six of some other guy who is tying to kill a buff who is bombing the fighter hangars of a base where a lot of guys are upping who want to shoot the other guys. Again, just about everyone in a furball is cherry picking to one degree or another.

In a furball the majority of participants get shot down by people they themselves were not directly engaging(cherry picked).

Guppy makes a good point though that you should learn so you don't insult someone without merit:  Not all people who get picked are picked because they had poor SA. There are several reasons this could happen, here's a few:

Numbers against became so great that they could do little about it as they didn't get a chance to disengage.

A recent ACM put them in a non-defensible position.

They wanted to kill the guy they were "on"

They just didn't care because the furball/fight is the fun for them and planes are free in the MA.

One of their kids fell and hurt herself and the pilot cares more for the welfare of the child than his/her cartoon plane.

Additionally,  you really should get your own skill set into perspective.  Flying around in the horde as I've so often see you do, or picking on the fringe of a fight(as has been levied against you in this thread) doesn't mean you have good SA, and no, it doesn't mean you are a "smart" pilot.  It means you are a "survivalist".  It doesn't mean you are a good cartoon pilot, nor does it mean you are a bad one.

Finally, all these declarations you make about your own talent level really don't have any credibility whatsoever.  Here's an example why:  The other day you and I, along with a couple of others, were capping a base where the fight had petered out.  as we bounced hapless uppers I remarked that I was having a rough night because I was only getting assists.  I then had to listen on range vox as you told me that you were getting the kills because you were "a great shot, an awesome shot".  Curious, I checked your hit % and found it to be less than mine. I must tell you, I'm not a great shot, not an awesome shot.  I don't even think I'm a "good shot" and you shoot a smidge less accurately than I do.

You are right Steve, I never said I didnt PICK, I will PICK a enemy off a squadies or freindlys tail any day of the week. HOWEVER GANGING IS NOT MY GAME, I dont balive in going after a con that already has 3 people jockying for position to kill him when hes already dead but just a matter of time. However if i see a 1 on 1 and the guy is taking FOREVER to get a shot on him, i will ask him if he wants help. Because as I said befor, the longer u are ENGAGED the longer u are on the RED ZONE to get killed yourself.

Steve as a Boom and Zoomer yourself  u know as well as I do, your Danger level increases the longer u stay 1 on 1 with someone in a furball. U either need to get the kill quick or give it to someone who can so u can rebuild energy for the endless waves of cons

[WaRLoCkL]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Warlock, you'd have less of a hard time on this board if you'd just be honest, even with yourself.  You killed some  guys that were already engaged.  This means you cherry picked them....... so what?  

 In a furball of say,  30 on 30, it would be a miracle of Godlike proportions if all planes managed to match up into convenient 1v1's. That's just not the way it works in the MA.  The naked, honest truth of it is that just about everyone in a furball is trying to "pick" an enemy.

Take a good look next time you are in a furball:  this guy is going after that guy who is trying to kill another guy who is on the six of some other guy who is tying to kill a buff who is bombing the fighter hangars of a base where a lot of guys are upping who want to shoot the other guys. Again, just about everyone in a furball is cherry picking to one degree or another.

In a furball the majority of participants get shot down by people they themselves were not directly engaging(cherry picked).

Guppy makes a good point though that you should learn so you don't insult someone without merit:  Not all people who get picked are picked because they had poor SA. There are several reasons this could happen, here's a few:

Numbers against became so great that they could do little about it as they didn't get a chance to disengage.

A recent ACM put them in a non-defensible position.

They wanted to kill the guy they were "on"

They just didn't care because the furball/fight is the fun for them and planes are free in the MA.

One of their kids fell and hurt herself and the pilot cares more for the welfare of the child than his/her cartoon plane.

Additionally,  you really should get your own skill set into perspective.  Flying around in the horde as I've so often see you do, or picking on the fringe of a fight(as has been levied against you in this thread) doesn't mean you have good SA, and no, it doesn't mean you are a "smart" pilot.  It means you are a "survivalist".  It doesn't mean you are a good cartoon pilot, nor does it mean you are a bad one.

Finally, all these declarations you make about your own talent level really don't have any credibility whatsoever.  Here's an example why:  The other day you and I, along with a couple of others, were capping a base where the fight had petered out.  as we bounced hapless uppers I remarked that I was having a rough night because I was only getting assists.  I then had to listen on range vox as you told me that you were getting the kills because you were "a great shot, an awesome shot".  Curious, I checked your hit % and found it to be less than mine. I must tell you, I'm not a great shot, not an awesome shot.  I don't even think I'm a "good shot" and you shoot a smidge less accurately than I do.

You are right Steve, I never said I didnt PICK, I will PICK a enemy off a squadies or freindlys tail any day of the week. HOWEVER GANGING IS NOT MY GAME, I dont balive in going after a con that already has 3 people jockying for position to kill him when hes already dead but just a matter of time. However if i see a 1 on 1 and the guy is taking FOREVER to get a shot on him, i will ask him if he wants help. Because as I said befor, the longer u are ENGAGED the longer u are on the RED ZONE to get killed yourself.

Steve as a Boom and Zoomer yourself  u know as well as I do, your Danger level increases the longer u stay 1 on 1 with someone in a furball. U either need to get the kill quick or give it to someone who can so u can rebuild energy for the endless waves of cons

[WaRLoCkL]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
i think you missed my point warlock.

next time maybe it becomes 5/100 chance, then next time its 10/100 chance. after just a few short months you will find that your 1/100 chance uber manouver has become a 75/100 chance easy reversal kill.

im not really bothered to persue this much further though..

Batfink u know as well as i do a P47 Turning back on a Hurri with equal speed and E on the deck is not going to work on anything but Inexperienced pilot. Your survivability is only going to be determined by the skill of the pilot in the hurricane not by a miraculouse manuver that u have perfected. The jug is outclassed in Acceleration, Climb, and Turning to the hurricane on the deck. So turning back that soon will even give away the chance of extending out again. Any descent hurrican pilot would know what to do when a jug turned back on them.

Once again dont throw SMART out the window, yes it may be fun to GIVE IT A TRY, but not everyone is flying that way. What this orignal post was about befor people started bashing it, was a new guy simply wanting to know some of he best manuvers to do in sticky situations.

He is trying to stay alive and live longer so that he can get a few kills and maybe let to land them.

GRIM himself told me, NEVER try to reverse a hurricane of equal energy,

I use to always try to reverse hurricanes in my corsair, Grim told me everytime he saw me do that he smiled, because he knew exacly what to do.

Grim tought me how to fight a hurricane, and now i never have problems with him.

Fact is the right way to fight a hurricane is keep your speed and zoom climb, why u ask? a hurricane is pretty much the top 3 SLOWEST fighter planes. However its acceleration and E managment is GREAT. So u can quickly lose the advantage by slowing down.

[dedalos]

I read as match as I could.  Thread is too long lol.  There is one thing I see in here.  After all these years in the game, people, including vets are suggesting to use your planes strengths in order to win the fight.  Then they proceed to explain that that means extending (or running).  WTF?

After all these years in the game you still look at it as who can turn better?  If you have a Hurri diving on your six then yes, do what you have to.  But co e HO merge and all you can come up with is, "yeah, couple of turns then run, don't play his game, must stay alive, etc"  Why the couple of turns? just in case he does not know how to pull on the stick?

Use your plains strengths.  Go up!!!!. Slow the Hurri down to the point that its useless.  Then pull up.  I can show you what I mean if you like.

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by WaRLoCkL
HOWEVER GANGING IS NOT MY GAME, blah blah blah blah blah blah!

 

[kilz]

Originally posted by 5PointOh
I totally agree, know your plane, use its advantages.

all these post and no one commented on his AVATAR 5point love the avatar