bogus ENY calculation

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Tiger
That's fine...  atleast you can at like you are contributing.  

And that would simply render your auto-disco feature useless.

[E25280]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
On topic, ENY penalizes the side with numbers as it's setup now- one need only look at the whining to see this. What you want is, quite simply, a mechanism added to the game that allows you to fly with the horde, without suffering the penalty.

I think you are being a tad harsh toward Crockett on this one.  He is describing where he is away from his side's horde, is facing an opposing horde, and yet is "crippled" by ENY because his country's horde is larger.

I would argue that he isn't really crippled as there are many capable planes to fly, even when ENY restricted, but that is beside his point.

The ENY restriction is just compounding the age-old complaint of "my country doesn't use it's resources properly."  I would wager if he had a fair number of countrymen supporting his opposition of the enemy horde, he wouldn't have been quite as frustrated with the ENY restriction.

So, although I understand his frustration, it is misdirected IMO.

[hubsonfire]

He's still on the side with numbers, whether they are at his disposal or not. This is just another in a long line of "make ENY effect everyone but us" threads.

[crockett]

Originally posted by E25280
I think you are being a tad harsh toward Crockett on this one.  He is describing where he is away from his side's horde, is facing an opposing horde, and yet is "crippled" by ENY because his country's horde is larger.

I would argue that he isn't really crippled as there are many capable planes to fly, even when ENY restricted, but that is beside his point.

The ENY restriction is just compounding the age-old complaint of "my country doesn't use it's resources properly."  I would wager if he had a fair number of countrymen supporting his opposition of the enemy horde, he wouldn't have been quite as frustrated with the ENY restriction.

So, although I understand his frustration, it is misdirected IMO.

Really anymore, I don't care too much about the hordes. I just fly around looking for good fights on my own and try to avoid  running into the constant gang bang. The good fights tend to be far away from the hordes and the furballs.

I do get ticked, that it's rare you can ever find a good fight without 5 guys from the other team suddenly showing up or the con running to his ack or buddies. Better yet having someone on your own country jumping in even after u tell them u have it under control.  (however that's a different topic)

The idea I was trying to present was a way to use ENY to give a "reason" to go fly outside the horde. If ENY was broken up by section of the map and carried a much harsher penalty it would likely get people to fly in other parts of the map where they weren't affected by the ENY.

See that's the entire thing with the way the game is set up right now. There is no "reason" for the average player to fly outside the horde. There is no incentive to do it, which is why I suggest a ENY by section. At that point there is a incentive to fly on the other side of the map, if they want their LA7 or Spit16 or even a 10 eny plane like a Hurri 2 or what ever.

I don't fly low perk planes very often, but 20+ ENY is pretty much a daily thing when flying Rooks especially late at night when I tend to fly a lot. You can't go to the other arena at those times because there will be 10 people in it.

[crockett]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
He's still on the side with numbers, whether they are at his disposal or not. This is just another in a long line of "make ENY effect everyone but us" threads.

If you are talking about me.. you haven't read anything I've said.

[sethipus]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
He's still on the side with numbers, whether they are at his disposal or not. This is just another in a long line of "make ENY effect everyone but us" threads.

No, that's derailing by other people.  The thread itself was actually about whether anyone can explain this apparent anomaly whereby a massive imbalance in numbers resulted in only a very modest ENY, over a fairly long period of time.  I'm wondering whether there is a bug, or else some unintended loophole in the ENY calculations that under some set of conditions allowed for this.

I still maintain that the numbers imbalance I demonstrated with the screenshots I took should have resulted in significantly higher ENY.  I was actually hoping someone from HTC would reply to it.  Oh well.

[Tiger]

Originally posted by sethipus





I'd like to know how the Rooks could have 162% as many people on, and 213% as many people in the air, as the Knights, and only had an ENY of 10.5.  My God,  when Knights have come anywhere near these kinds of numerical advantages we've all been flying A6M2s and P-40s, and bombing with Bostons, for Heaven's Sake.  And in this case the Rooks couldn't fly what, Ponies or better?

What gives?  Why do the ENY values sometimes make so little sense?

OK... first, ENY has nothing to do with "In Flight", it is strictly off of number logged in.  Second,  you are comparing the Rooks to only the Knights.  ENY is calculated based off of total numebr logged on.

The example's you posted are about right.  Look at the % number there, 41 and 43 and ENY increased as their %-age increased.

[Lusche]

I reprise an earlier posting of mine:

ENY  limit of a country is basically computed by comparing it's total players number with the total players number of the country with least population.
There is a minimum population arena has to rech before ENY kicks in, and there might be a few additional modifiers (has been tweaked a few times since it's introduction in summer 2004), but basically that's it.

It's consistent and same for all countries.

I do not see any problem/error in the example posted.

[Nwbie]

Originally posted by WMLute
InFlight has no bearing on ENY.

The QUESTION would be why are roughly 40% of the Knights sitting in the tower?

THAT'S what killed ya'.  Was there a mission about to roll or something?

The Real Question is:

Why and how do you geeks know there is actually a screen shot that tells you how the eny is balancing out?

They are not in the air Lute - because all of the ijots are sitting in the tower - looking at this screen showing the balancing and whining.....

Up a spit1 - actually come in from a sector away - dive down and kill some unlucky bastage - run away and land -- the perk points will make you happy again.....

You guys whine too much -

Imagine being on squad channel with wrag singing..... you will be happy that the only thing you need to complain about is the eny




NwBie

[sethipus]

Originally posted by Nwbie
The Real Question is:

Why and how do you geeks know there is actually a screen shot that tells you how the eny is balancing out?

They are not in the air Lute - because all of the ijots are sitting in the tower - looking at this screen showing the balancing and whining....

I realize you're just talking out of your anal orifice because you like hearing your own voice, but for the record, here and here are the original screenshots, converted from 9mb bmp files to 250-300kb jpegs.  Obviously not taken from the tower.

Oh well, I guess unless they actually document the entire ENY calculation algorithms we'll never really know the rhyme or reason for why ENY is sometimes off the charts and sometimes it barely registers, even in conditions of massive population advantage for one team over the others.

It's one of those Mysteries Man Was Not Meant to Know.

[Lusche]

Your screenshots still do not show ANY inconsitency, now matter how often you post them

The differential between ROOK total population and the country with least total population is higher in screenshot 1, and so is resulting ENY. Where exactly is the problem????????

[The Fugitive]

Originally posted by sethipus
.....  Obviously not taken from the tower.

Oh well, I guess unless they actually document the entire ENY calculation algorithms we'll never really know the rhyme or reason for why ENY is sometimes off the charts and sometimes it barely registers, even in conditions of massive population advantage for one team over the others.

It's one of those Mysteries Man Was Not Meant to Know.

It doesn't matter whether you took the screen shots from the tower or not, what people are trying to say is you can ignore the "in flight numbers". The only numbers that apply are the "population" numbers. this includes in flight, in tower, and in GV people. Some contend that the "in tower"population shouldn't be counted because like in the first picture the difference between the Rooks total (most populated) and Knights total (least populated) is the Rooks have 50% more, but if you go by those "in flight", the Rooks have about double the population.

Other than that, I see nothing wrong with the ENY here. Its the same for all sides, so you really don't have anything to complain about. Only problem you have is too many of your Knight buddys like to hide in the tower. Get them into the sky to give you a hand!:aok

[Ghastly]

(Response to Crockett)

For some time I lobbied for a locally applied ENY system.  On the surface, it sounds like the golden fix for the problem you described.  

However, after sitting down to design a locally applied ENY system in enough detail to be able to codify the rules for it, I realized that applying it locally simply won't work right unless a LOT of work goes into coding it - so much so that would probably become too top heavy to work at all.

With any kind of ENY application that is localized enough to be of any real value, as soon as you shut off the other sides supply of vehicles through destroying the hangers or even through capping the field, you begin to shut off your OWN SUPPLY too as you drive the local ENY through the roof.   Which would make it even MORE of a problem than it is now...

So until someone comes up with a completely nifty outside the box solution, the current system is probably the best available.

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
Long time? Like, the year you've been playing? The ENY by sector would not work. ENY up in the sector your green hordlets are vulching? Take off from an adjacent field. Nothing changes, except for the field of origin. Enemy kicking your tail? Everyone stays in the tower, or goes to a different field. ENY goes up for the enemy, even though you were outnumbering them. Not a good solution.

Actually Hub, crocketts idea works.  It's one I've been a proponent of for a long time; localized ENY.

The thing is it has to apply to a 9 or 25 sector (3x3 or 5x5) area around your take off base (1-2 sectors in each direction) with a limiter (probably based on player numbers in the "ENY zone") so that taking off deep in your own territory doesn't force ENY on you.

It could even be expanded to 49 sectors (7x7; 3 sectors in each direction) or more as long as it's an odd number to allow for a centralized take-off sector.  Playing with the ENY zone size would allow HiTech to tweak the system to maximize the desired effect.

The downside to this is that it would have to be based on in-flight numbers rather than logged-in numbers unless HT has a way of counting people in towers within the zone which they may.

Regardless, I would still envision an overall ENY with this as either an add-on or a modifiyer.

[hubsonfire]

So how exactly could it work? I don't think I've ever seen anyone spit out an ENY formula- there's almost always a "I'm not sure how exactly it would work, but HT could figure it out" clause, and other people saying their idea will work, but not how.

How would it deal with missions? What if 2 bases are 5 sectors apart- one under attack by one country, the other by another country? Would people be able to defend both bases, assuming they had fewer total players, but everyone was in those few sectors? What would happen if they all sat in the tower for 10 minutes? A localized system would have to require a huge amount of work, it seems. It would have to compare so many factors in order to be an improvement, that I really doubt that it could work as well, or better than what we have.

There's one simpler alternative that encourages people to quit flying with the horde- Actually disable flight at 30, and ramp ENY up quickly initially. You guys would come up with all sorts of ENY alternatives then, but they'd still be for the same reasons.