WW3 and Nuclear Iran

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Jappa52
That is like saying it’s ok to sell mass quantities of fertilizer to a known terrorist/bomb maker because he wants to use it in his garden.

Depends on fertilizer.

Russia declared that we will supply nuclear materials to Iran only if they will return it after use for refurbishing.

I understand the hype in the West: Germans and French started nuclear contracts with Iran back in the 70s and now barbaric evil Russians are going to make some profit.

[Yeager]

crockett.  I would be seriously suprised if Iran could construct any sort of nuclear bomb, and test it, before Bush leaves office.  Hard to say who will be president by then......but not to worry, according to boroda, Iran is interested only in peaceful atomic energy and has no interest in building a nookular weapons arsenal.

just for shyts and gigglz:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty

[soda72]

Originally posted by Yeager
Sidebar: Makes me wonder why Puten is so enamored with defending  Iranian nuclear capabilities?

$

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Yeager
crockett.  I would be seriously suprised if Iran could construct any sort of nuclear bomb, and test it, before Bush leaves office.  Hard to say who will be president by then......but not to worry, according to boroda, Iran is interested only in peaceful atomic energy and has no interest in building a nookular weapons arsenal.

They badly need electricity, just look at their metallurgical industry growth. Bomb is a good option, but not as vital now as power stations.

I think Iran will be a next world industrial center in 20-30 years.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Boroda
Look, you quote wrongly-translated speeches of Iranian president, not their leader, in a thread where I already made a comment saying that you guys are misinformed about Russian policy.

I quoted the leader of the Iranian government.

My main point is that your media lies to you.

The quote came from china news. PR of China.

Khameni is supreme leader but  Ahmadinejad, as President, is the leader of the Iranian Government.

[MotorOil1]

Originally posted by soda72
$

Bingo

[MotorOil1]

Originally posted by Tiger
The Israelis have no beef with going to blow ***** up.  They did it to Iraq's nuke plant in the 80's.  They even flew some sorties into Iraq during Desert Storm after a Scud landed in downtown Tel Aviv, even after the US had begged them to stay out of it to preserve the 'coalition'.  You saw what they did to Lebanon a couple of years ago because of the constant rocket assaults over the border.  The Israeli's don't get other to do their dirty work, they are well equiped and willing to handle it all on their own.

I agree fully.  I think it's another situation as in 1991.  It would be better for mid east politics if someone else were to blame for attacking Iran.

If you get my meaning.

If no one will jump to the pump, Isael will do what it takes to defend themselves.

[Neubob]

Originally posted by Boroda
I think Iran will be a next world industrial center in 20-30 years.

And you base this prediction on what?

When was the last time any nation in that region, besides Israel, created any substantial indigenous industry, made any serious innovations, or founded any major portion of their economy on anything besides sales?

[x0847Marine]

Iran blah blah blah, maybe it's time to leave the people in the mid-east alone, epically Iran. Better yet, our .gov should man up and admit to its abhorrent  behavior towards the people of Iran in the past, that would go a long way in their culture and they just might become our friends.

One reason Iran hate & distrusts us is because we, "the land of the free" overthrew their democratically elected .gov, denying them a democratic future... funny that Bush et al need a war today, to re-create what we ruined: democracy in the mid-east.

"While the shah sat on the throne as a mere shadow, Muhammad Mossadeq basked in the acclaim of the vast majority of Iranians, who for the first time in decades gave their genuine respect, devotion, and loyalty to their recognized leader." - Sandra Mackey’s great book; "The Iranians"

So what did the US do to this popular leader?, a dude they rallied behind and revered?: overthrew him. He posed no threat to the US, wasn't a tyrant or war monger.

The excuse dejour back then was Iran would fall to the evils of communism, todays manufactured evil is "terrorism", or is it "Nukes"?? I forget... Truth is was all about Mossadeq  taking charge of his countries oil from the Brits / US.. how dare a sovereign nation take control of their resources!! coup time!!

We supported Saddam & helped him gas / wage war against the Iranians because our feelings were hurt that they kicked us out, and the nerve of these people at being bitter the USA of A played with their country like a piece on a chess board.

Operation Ajax
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1021997,00.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/latulippe/latulippe41.html

"For many Iranians, the coup was a tragedy from which their country has never recovered. Perhaps because Mossadegh represents a future denied, his memory has approached myth."

The CIA & Brits, used what todays is called "terrorism", lawmakers were bribed, harassed and assassinated, journalists jailed and decent was met with a US backed kick in the balls with over 300 dead in bombings and other random acts of CIA bought & paid for violence.

Is this the way America should act? is this seriously what the red white and blue stands for? no, but its the way republicans & democrats act... so ask yourself if these people really hate "America", or just hate what our leaders have done. Then try to remember that next time you vote.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Neubob
And you base this prediction on what?

When was the last time any nation in that region, besides Israel, created any substantial indigenous industry, made any serious innovations, or founded any major portion of their economy on anything besides sales?

I'll say 1000 years ago j/k, but every joke is more then a joke...

Same thing could be said about South-East Asia and China just 20 years ago. Plus Israel gets sponsored by the US, I hope you know it.

I just see some reports and observations from acquaintances and friends visiting Iran. They grow at enormous rate. They but best specialists. 75% of their population is younger then 25 years, and they study not only Koran.

Anyway, such predictions are worth nothing, so I can afford it

[babek-]

Boroda mentioned many things - so I just want to point at some other things:

Does Iran need nuclear energy?
Yes. Its natural resources are limited. In the days of the Shah this problem was seen and the nuclear devices planned. The Busheer reactor was started by Germany. Then the revolution came to end the terror regime of the Shah and the  work on the reactor stopped.

Today Iran has a fast developing industry. For example Iran is producing civilian aircrafts, helicopters automobiles. Iran Khodro is the world wide nr. 20 of producing cars company. (By the way: With the help of France and Peugeot). 1 million cars are produced every year.

Iran needs an energy source and nuclear energy is a good solution. The embargo has not stopped Iran. Like in many other sectors of iranian industry the embargo had an opposide effect: It forced the iranians to produce things by themself, to make themself independent from froeigners who deliver spare parts.

Thats also the reason why iran wants an energy source which they control completely and without being dependent from foreigners.

I think that this is correct.

Now the US president, who face the desaster in Iraq, tells again some strange thing about the dangerous Iran and World war III and so on.

On the same time it is accepted that the USA dont interfere, when Saudi Arabia supports the Al Kaida with money or Pakistan (with an instable and corrupt junta and nuclear weapons) is a supporter of the Taliban.

It is ignored that Libya, which is ruled by a criminal dictator who gave once the order to blow up the TWA-plane over Lockerby, will now receive nuclear reactors and modern weapons. Like Saddam once Ghaddafi is today the "good" Frankenstein. Do you really belive that this man is trustworthy?

It is completely ignored that Iran was sending its solidarity to the relatives of the victims at 9/11. In contrary there are strange reports that Iran was responsible of the 9/11-terrorism. A ridiculus statement, considering the fact that iran always fought against the Taliban and sunnite terror groups like Al Kaida.

Now the propaganda machine build up the strange picture that Iran is a new Nazi Empire, ready to start WWIII and sending nuclear missiles. So a missile shield is needed to protect Poland and Europe against iranian missiles.
Really ridiculous.

Iran has not started wars in the last centuries. It will develop itself to a regional power at the persian gulf - also because of Mr. Bush´s operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. Both regimes there were enemies of Iran and with the Saddam regime in Bagdad and the Taliban regime in Kabul left, Iran has now much more influence and better relations to these neighbors.

The embargos also didnt work and they will never work, because there is no world community which wants to isolate Iran. Instead there are friendly nations like Russia and China, who are officially cooperating with iran and its industry and also many countries which are working inofficially with Iran. Like France which is on the one hand telling that there must be embargos against Iran and on the other hand cooperating with Iran like Peugeout in the civilian sector or also in the military sector: Last month 3 libyan planes arrived in Teheran, delivering spare parts for the 24 Mirage fighters which are now fling in the IRIAF.

So much about the effectivity of embargos and so on.

While Mr. Putin and other leaders take the chance to gain from the relationship and friendship with Iran Mr. Bush is just helping the radical groups in Iran by threatening the country. By doing so he avoids innerpolitical fightings in Iran. Facing a threat by foreigners always had the result that the iranians supported the actual regime.

So its (again) a stupid political move of Mr. Bush. On the other hand it was not a surprise. Only a sad fact that Mr. Bush is not able to learn from the devestating mistakes he made in Iraq.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by babek-
Iran has not started wars in the last centuries.

Since it was pretty much under the power of Colonial powers from 1800 to 1925 and then under the pro western Palavi dynasyty to 1979, your statement is fairly safe.

[bj229r]

If it wasn't for the fact that Iran (Actually, a few nutburger leaders) keeps threatening to erase Israel from the map, keeps STONING people to death (including minors)for misdemeanors, keeps providing weapons to terrorists like Hezbolla, or Sadr's punks, people might think of them in a  better light.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Boroda
You are again misinformed. Russia is interested in non-military nuclear development in Iran. This is emphasized in every news program here. Putin said it himself.

 

Do you know what will happen after Iran detonates a first nuclear device? Nothing. No one will give a flying ****.

Iran is one of the most "nuclear-safe" countries now. Especially compared to Pakistan. At least they got sane predictable leadership, unlike some other countries, they don't start stupid wars and don't host known terrorists giving them political asylum and government jobs in DoS.

C'mon man.

You cant possibly expect us to beleive all that is the vodka talking.

Whatcha smoking?
And why you holding out on the rest of us?

[babek-]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Since it was pretty much under the power of Colonial powers from 1800 to 1925 and then under the pro western Palavi dynasyty to 1979, your statement is fairly safe.

Iran was never a colony like the newly created arab countries. It was ruled in the last 100 years by the Shahs of the Quadshar-dynasty, then of the Pahlevi-dynasty and then by the mullahs.

It tried to keep out of wars of the european nations. In WW1 Iran declared itself neutral, but that neutrality was ignored by the Ottoman Empire and Russian Empire who used Northwest Iran for their wars, devastating the area.

In WW2 Iran also declared its neutrality but was occupied and forced to join the Allies.

After WW2 it never started a war.

So - unlike countries who dont hesitate to start wars without thinking about the consequences - Iran has indeed not started wars for the last 100 years.