Author Topic: WW3 and Nuclear Iran  (Read 2856 times)

Offline babek-

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WW3 and Nuclear Iran
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2007, 12:06:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by bj229r
If it wasn't for the fact that Iran (Actually, a few nutburger leaders) keeps threatening to erase Israel from the map, keeps STONING people to death (including minors)for misdemeanors, keeps providing weapons to terrorists like Hezbolla, or Sadr's punks, people might think of them in a  better light.


You know that the USA supports the MEK-terrorists in Iraq?

A terrorist group which is on the one hand defined as terrorists by the USA, because they killed US citizen in the past and also killed and tortured iraqi kurdish and iranian civilians?

On the other hand they are allowed to have a military base in Iraq and are protected by US soldiers against the iraqis who would like to take revenge against their torturers.

So its easy to blame Iran for supporting terrorists but it should not be ignored that the USA do exactly the same.

About the stoning and so on, Iran has these problems, yes, but in a much lower number than US allies and friends like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.
Not that this make it better, but why not blaming these countries ?

And about weapons for iraqi civil-war-fighters: Saudi Arabia supports the sunnite arab terrorists with enough money to buy weapons. The US occupation forces "lost" tenthousands of weapons which are now in the civil war groups hands. But all the propaganda is reporting are weapons made in Iran.

Face the fact that there is a civil war in Iraq and the sunnite arab countries
support the sunnite faction including the sunnite Al Kaida while the shi ite Iran is supporting the shi ite factions.

Offline BUG_EAF322

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« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2007, 03:42:30 AM »
Its very naief to think its safe that a a country that denies the holocaust being able to develop a nuclear weapon.

Im also am tired of this Poutin bringin the peace of our times from iraq.

Its time for russia to do something positive for the world instead of hanging out the big guy and shouting at everything.

Actualy russia became one of the worst capitalist countrys of the world.
The AK-47 is the big proof of it.





:rolleyes:

Offline BUG_EAF322

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« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2007, 03:49:41 AM »
Quote
After WW2 it never started a war


they only sended thousends of kids with a key around their neck over some mine fields.

But anyway the state after the sjah is young so the chance is big they gonna make a mistake and start or provoke a war.

Offline babek-

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WW3 and Nuclear Iran
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2007, 04:22:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
they only sended thousends of kids with a key around their neck over some mine fields.

But anyway the state after the sjah is young so the chance is big they gonna make a mistake and start or provoke a war.


Sorry to say this, but you know nothing about iranian history.

So "They" sent kids in the minefield.

Do you know the circumstances of these years and what happened in Iran?

Iran was attacked by an invasion force of arabs of Saddam.
Saddam thought that he could get an advantage because Iran was weakened after the revolution. Most of the high ranking imperial officers have fled Iran or were executed or were in prison facing execution (like one of my uncles).
The army, once one of the best armies in the region, was in an extreme bad shape.

Saddam didnt wanted to conquer whole Iran. His target was the SW-iranian province Khusistan. The arabs call this province "Arabistan", because the arab minority of the iranians live in this province. So Saddam expected an arab solidarity when he came like a arab liberator.

The iranian army was in full retreat. But the iranian arabs also fled or resist instead of cooperating with their arab borthers from iraq.

Saddam was so angry about this "treason" that he ordered that every town in the conquered area has to be razed.
Like the Nazis in the occupied eastern territory one iranian town after the other was destroyed. But in the wetsern media in these days Saddam was shown as the good guy and the Iranians as the monsters.

Facing this massacre the iranians build special troops to support thje reorganizing regular army. One of these troops was the Pasdaran guard, which operated as a fanatical storm troop. Another was the Basidj - a badly trained force made of yioungsters who were highly motivated.

There is a region in the Khuzistan province where hundreds of iraqi tanks were destroyed. This defeat of Saddams attack force was the start of the end of iraqi occupation forces in Iran. For every of these tank 6-8 Basidji had to sacrifice themself.
You can make fun of these "kids with keys around their necks" but in these days Iran had no other choice than to use this method to defend itself.

The whole world was watching when the arabs of Iraq were destroying the iranian towns in the occupied zone and killed the civilians.

Also the so called civilized world even accepted that 150000 iranian soldiers and iraqi civilians were killed by gas weapons.

The iranians managed to kick out the arab invasion force from iranian territory.

Despite embargos.
Despite Saddams gas weapons.
Despite the massive weapon help for Saddam.

But Iran had to pay a high price for this. The youngsters who marched through the minefields or who stormed ill-equipped against enemy tanks and iraqi defense posts died in ten thousands.

But they were true patriots and not hiding like cowards in national guard units while the nation had to fight a bitter war against an enemy.

Offline SaburoS

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Re: Re: Re: WW3 and Nuclear Iran
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2007, 06:22:04 AM »
________
quote:"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets," Ahmadinejad said in a speech to thousands of people in the Iranian city of Zahedan, according to a report on Wednesday from Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting.
________

   quote:
    "As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.
________


The comments of a sane leader
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The comments of a sane leader:rolleyes:


Actually I have to believe the above quotes are out of context in our propaganda campaign against Iran (since Bush labeling Iran as part of the "Axis of Evil").
Iran is a non-Arab nation comprising mainly a Shia-faith based population.
They have a long history of nonaggression with their neighbors despite being surrounded by their traditional enemies. They are no threat to us or to any country in the region.

Here's an article that addresses both of the above quotes:
Israel to be wiped off the map?

Aug 8, 2006, from an article from IRNA (Iran's official news agency). Consider how this differs from the 'saber rattling nature of Iran's President's "quotes" we see in our press:
Diplomat calls for removal of weapons of mass destruction

Iraq's invasion for democracy? Hardly. It's all about money. Always has, always will be. The Great Deception
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline bj229r

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WW3 and Nuclear Iran
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2007, 06:23:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by babek-
Sorry to say this, but you know nothing about iranian history.

So "They" sent kids in the minefield.

Do you know the circumstances of these years and what happened in Iran?...................


You deftly ignored his point---quite in the tradition of Boroda prattling on about the Soviet Union's glory days. Damn, trying to SAVE children and women is USUALLY a major objective of one side or the other---they convinced these poor kids they would find eternal peace if they would JUST walk across that minefield, a country which would do that doesn't deserve saving
Quote
During the Iran-Iraq War, the Ayatollah Khomeini imported 500,000 small plastic keys from Taiwan. The trinkets were meant to be inspirational. After Iraq invaded in September 1980, it had quickly become clear that Iran's forces were no match for Saddam Hussein's professional, well-armed military. To compensate for their disadvantage, Khomeini sent Iranian children, some as young as twelve years old, to the front lines. There, they marched in formation across minefields toward the enemy, clearing a path with their bodies. Before every mission, one of the Taiwanese keys would be hung around each child's neck. It was supposed to open the gates to paradise for them.

At one point, however, the earthly gore became a matter of concern. "In the past," wrote the semi-official Iranian daily Ettelaat as the war raged on, "we had child-volunteers: 14-, 15-, and 16-year-olds. They went into the minefields. Their eyes saw nothing. Their ears heard nothing. And then, a few moments later, one saw clouds of dust. When the dust had settled again, there was nothing more to be seen of them. Somewhere, widely scattered in the landscape, there lay scraps of burnt flesh and pieces of bone." Such scenes would henceforth be avoided, Ettelaat assured its readers. "Before entering the minefields, the children [now] wrap themselves in blankets and they roll on the ground, so that their body parts stay together after the explosion of the mines and one can carry them to the graves."

These children who rolled to their deaths were part of the Basiji, a mass movement created by Khomeini in 1979 and militarized after the war started in order to supplement his beleaguered army.The Basij Mostazafan--or "mobilization of the oppressed"--was essentially a volunteer militia, most of whose members were not yet 18. They went enthusiastically, and by the thousands, to their own destruction. "The young men cleared the mines with their own bodies," one veteran of the Iran-Iraq War recalled in 2002 to the German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine. "It was sometimes like a race. Even without the commander's orders, everyone wanted to be first."

link
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

http://www.flamewarriors.net/forum/

Offline Viking

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Re: Re: Re: Re: WW3 and Nuclear Iran
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2007, 06:48:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
Actually I have to believe the above quotes are out of context in our propaganda campaign against Iran ...


How refreshing to hear such a voice of reason from an American poster. :)

Offline babek-

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WW3 and Nuclear Iran
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2007, 06:57:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by bj229r
Damn, trying to SAVE children and women is USUALLY a major objective of one side or the other---they convinced these poor kids they would find eternal peace if they would JUST walk across that minefield



Again you miss the situation of the time, when Saddam tried to invade Iran.

The "civilized world" supported Saddam and his invasion forces.

The iraqis were destroying the iranian towns sytematicly in their occupation zone. They were killing the iranian people who they considered traitors to the arab cause. Including the children.
And the world just watched and accepted it, because Iran was the bad guy and Saddam a good friend of the "civilized world".

On the one hand you blame Iran because they used all forces to fight Saddams invasion troops, including youngsters, and on the other hand I see no regret about the fact that the Saddam-creature, which was supported also by the USA, was killing thousands iranian children in the iraqi occupation zone or throwing gas wepons on the iraqi kurdish children.
Maybe I should search some links for you, decribing the suffering of the children in Halabja, who died by Saddams gas attack.
Or some links of mass executions of civilians - including children - by iraqi troops in the occupied territory.

Irans army had to reorganize in the middle of a war and a sneak attack of the arabs. In these days every volunteer was mobilized. And its not important if the keys which the Basidji carried were made in Taiwan and were of plastic or whatever. These were symbols like medals.

These were indeed bitter days for iranians who suffered greatly in their wave attacks against the Saddam invaders. But finally the kicked the iraqis out of Iran - despite all the massive official and inofficial support Saddam got in those years by "civilized" nation.

You compared the text with the one of Boroda - and in one thing I agree. The soviets could and should be proud that they once kicked out the nazi invasion army, also fighting with wave attacks and much suffering. But they were succesful to protect their proud nation against Hitler, who defined them as subhumans and wanted to kill them and steal their land. Very much like Iran did against  Saddam who defined the non arab iranians as subhumans and wanted to steal iranian land.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2007, 08:04:18 AM »
Babek.. I am sure that they are the reasonable peaceful people that you claim... it is just that we have had such bad luck with arabs..

There was even one country that captured by force out entire embassy and marched the US citizens down the street in blindfolds while the animals of that country cheered and jeered...  They kept em under horrible conditions for a year....what the hell was that country again?  sure don't want those ones to have nukes...

and russia... when has russia giving nuke material to a country every worked out as a good thing?

so yeah...you may be russian and iranian but... from what I have seen of both...

lazs

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2007, 09:16:24 AM »
If we do it, we should do it completely.  No more restraint.  End the Iranian problem once and for all time, and end that puten fool too!  that little judo chopping kGb weasle!

:aok
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Offline Eagler

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« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2007, 09:39:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Babek.. I am sure that they are the reasonable peaceful people that you claim... it is just that we have had such bad luck with arabs..

lazs


didn't you hear xmarines wife? It is all Americas fault

LOL LOL LOL
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Offline Yeager

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« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2007, 09:50:52 AM »
oswald was a xmarine too :O
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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2007, 10:55:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by babek-
Iran was never a colony like the newly created arab countries. It was ruled in the last 100 years by the Shahs of the Quadshar-dynasty, then of the Pahlevi-dynasty and then by the mullahs.


I never said it was a colony, I said it was under control of colonial powers.

With Russia on its northern border and British controlled India / Afganistan on its southeastern border it was a natural collision point for two empires.

Check out Herat in the 1830's.
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Offline Boroda

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« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2007, 11:14:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
and russia... when has russia giving nuke material to a country every worked out as a good thing?


Currently the US are the biggest buyer of Russian fission materials.

You guys as usual trying to illustrate a book called "Propaganda for dummies: how it works".

Everyone should quit using nuclear power stations just because someone in the US is afraid of electricity. And electricity should be banned to: it may be used in producing the weapons of mass destruction. Also we should ban wheel and fire, and restrict it to North America only.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2007, 12:20:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I never said it was a colony, I said it was under control of colonial powers.

With Russia on its northern border and British controlled India / Afganistan on its southeastern border it was a natural collision point for two empires.

Check out Herat in the 1830's.


Herat is in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan - British controlled?! Damn, in XIX century they lost more troops in one battle there then USSR did in 10 years!

Persia always had independent foreign policy, at least before WWI.