Author Topic: It's Like the Hydra  (Read 10727 times)

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #90 on: October 22, 2007, 10:52:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
Wrong on the first. Living proof on the second. Try AOL keyword "crusades."

Contrary to apparent "popular" belief, Al Queda are not the representatives, the spokespeople, the example or the inspiration of Islam. Those who think they are ...  are mistaken. And their anger, their resentment are misplaced. Some of them are using it as an excuse to proudly display both their ignorance and their bigotry. However it falls short in the simplest of litmus tests.

Terrorism is a crime. Local and international. Someone rationalizing their terrorist act by claiming it represents their religion or patriotism does not make that religion nor the country they claim to patriotically represent at fault. If it did you'd have declared war on America or Christians the day the MacMurrah building in OKC blew. But since that was too hard to justify we'll just wait until the next Middle East terrorist group does something horrible so we can justify going after Islam or Middle Easterns, in their entirety.

Notice the Bush administration didn't declare Saudi Arabia as part of it's "axis of terror" nor did they declare war on S.A. Kinda hard to go against those you're in bed with.

No, lasersailor (heh), you're wrong. Wars are indeed won by fighting them smartly. So is the peace maintained. Wars are lost through stupidity (whether it be the declaration and justification or the prosecution or even the occupation).

Now study that history you're working so hard at repeating. :D

And no, editing someone else's religious texts and teachings wouldn't be productive, be it the Queran, the Christian Bible or the Torah. Deal with the radical elements who choose to interpret them to justify their hate and their actions. :)


You do realize that the successful crusades were won by Total War, right?


I'm not going to reply again to you.  You're just like boroda.  You have these falsehoods so twisted up and ingrained in your psyche, that accepting anything else would ruin you mentally.
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Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #91 on: October 23, 2007, 08:33:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tigeress


Try taking a copy of the Quran on stage at a worldwide televised even and start debating... how about that? Perhaps at the UN.
TIGERESS


Rocky just fell from the sky in shock.
Want a guaranatee that nothing will be done.......take it to the UN.
Get the UN to hell out of the U.S.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #92 on: October 23, 2007, 08:50:26 AM »
arlo... saying "I don't get it but I am sure I am right and you are wrong" and then puting a smiley face at the end does not make you the winner of the debate.

I am pretty sure that no one wants a war with islam.. ala the crusades.  the crusades were 9 th century... oddly... just like the islamofacists are interpreting their religion,   Their enemy (christians) have evolved.. they have not.

sooo... arlo and tigress make the point that we must identify our enemy and "fight smart".   that is a great sounbite.   very sensisble

very worthless as a plan.    The "enemy" hides in the crowd.. he only comes out when it is safe.. he lives where we can't go and he blends in.  He raises money and gathers strength and oppresses from the safety of places we can't go... then.. still covertly.. he pretends to be just like the rest of his fellows till he plants a bomb here or runs an airliner into a building.

arlos plan appears to be... wait and see.   I am happy with that.. I don't care about blue cities in any case.   If he has another way of "identifying" these guys before they get here I am all ears.

The plan now is... to have a whole country be on our side... to anger and force the camelions to come to us and die.  

So far.. it seems to be working.   you can't argue that when we said "lets leave em alone and fight smart"  that we got a lot of terrorist activity here and that... good or bad.. when we are killing them over there and forcing them to come to us.. we aren't getting attacked here.

Now.. if either of you women have a good plan... I will be glad to hear the details... not soundbites... not womanly emotion...practical details.

and... putting a smiley at the end doesn't make the plan any smarter or more clever.

lazs

Offline john9001

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« Reply #93 on: October 23, 2007, 09:45:15 AM »
bin laden agrees with the democrats, the war is not going well.

http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/world/ny-wolade235428378oct23,0,4396789.story

Offline Tigeress

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« Reply #94 on: October 23, 2007, 02:27:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
,smip.
The "enemy" hides in the crowd.. he only comes out when it is safe.. he lives where we can't go and he blends in. He raises money and gathers strength and oppresses from the safety of places we can't go... then.. still covertly.. he pretends to be just like the rest of his fellows till he plants a bomb here or runs an airliner into a building.

lazs


I think you are right... and those are heads of the hydra, not the hydra itself, in my view.

This thing is long lived for a reason. Its fueled to be a warrior clan of warrior clans by a mandate that you Lazs and the rest of "us" will either convert or are to be killed with a bounty payed in sex eternally.

It is not a government as we know of governments and it doesn't have a capitol as we know capitols nor one only supreme leader in command like our president.

TIGERESS
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 03:00:42 PM by Tigeress »

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #95 on: October 23, 2007, 02:38:51 PM »
well... if you agree that I am right then you must realize that some things are not easy.

that does not mean they are hopeless or not worth doing...  there will always be crime.. muggings say.. does that mean we should not do anything to try to prevent it?  The muggers look just like the rest of us.   We can't really fight em but we can make it difficult for them to exist.  

In the case of the terrorists...  I believe that we have the advantage.. I believe that their cause is so backward and untenable that they can only win support by opression and keeping people in the dark... when an example of how good life really can be is shown.. they look like the 9 th century terrorists that they are,

I believe that they are trapped... that they have no choice but fight this losing battle in Iraq.

I did notice that the latest reports show a 70% improvement in violence since june...  since the surge... they can't even keep it up over there... much less here... no attacks here... less there... seems that if we are not "winning" at least they are losing.

They are the ones stuck having to win... it is their world that is getting smaller.. not ours.

It is not that we are creating two for every one we kill... it is that we are drawing out every one that can possibly be that nutty.   eventually there simply won't be enough 9th century nutjobs left in the world to keep up the movement.  There simply won't be any places for em to breed..

lazs

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #96 on: October 23, 2007, 02:56:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
arlo... saying "I don't get it but I am sure I am right and you are wrong" and then puting a smiley face at the end does not make you the winner of the debate.


It generally does when it's the other guy doing it. All they're missing is the smiley. ;)

Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Now.. if either of you women have a good plan... I will be glad to hear the details... not soundbites... not womanly emotion...practical details.

lazs


Actually, ma'am, I'm addressing the glaring problems with other peoples "plans" (emotional justification) here. Not unlike you're trying to do. But if you've got game, I'd like to see it. I'll also like to address it's strengths, if there are any, and weaknesses (but don't get your panties twisted cause you think I just inferred that you're weak ... darlin.) :D

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #97 on: October 23, 2007, 03:02:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
bin laden agrees with the democrats, the war is not going well.

http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/world/ny-wolade235428378oct23,0,4396789.story


Got rhetoric?* (*The "answer" to everything.) Good plan, Stan! :D

Offline john9001

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« Reply #98 on: October 23, 2007, 03:06:26 PM »
did you read the link, general bin laden is telling his troops in Iraq to shape up because they are losing the war.

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #99 on: October 23, 2007, 03:09:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
You do realize that the successful crusades were won by Total War, right?


I'm not going to reply again to you.  You're just like boroda.  You have these falsehoods so twisted up and ingrained in your psyche, that accepting anything else would ruin you mentally.


You're very ironic:

"The immediate cause of the First Crusade was Alexius I's appeal to Pope Urban II for mercenaries to help him resist Muslim advances into territory of the Byzantine Empire. In 1071, at the Battle of Manzikert, the Byzantine Empire was defeated, which led to the loss of all of Asia Minor (modern Turkey) save the coastlands."

"On a popular level, the first crusades unleashed a wave of impassioned, personally felt pious Christian fury that was expressed in the massacres of Jews that accompanied the movement of the Crusader mobs through Europe, as well as the violent treatment of "schismatic" Orthodox Christians of the east. During many of the attacks on Jews, local Bishops and Christians made attempts to protect Jews from the mobs that were passing through. Jews were often offered sanctuary in churches and other Christian buildings, but the mobs broke in and killed them anyway.

In the 13th century, Crusades never expressed such a popular fever, and after Acre fell for the last time in 1291 and the Occitan Cathars were exterminated during the Albigensian Crusade, the crusading ideal became devalued by Papal justifications of political and territorial aggressions within Catholic Europe.

The last crusading order of knights to hold territory were the Knights Hospitaller. After the final fall of Acre, they took control of the island of Rhodes, and in the sixteenth century, were driven to Malta, before being finally unseated by Napoleon Bonaparte in 1798."

Read more on the specific crusades in detail here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

You're welcome. :)

Offline Tigeress

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« Reply #100 on: October 23, 2007, 03:10:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
well... if you agree that I am right then you must realize that some things are not easy.

that does not mean they are hopeless or not worth doing...  there will always be crime.. muggings say.. does that mean we should not do anything to try to prevent it?  The muggers look just like the rest of us.   We can't really fight em but we can make it difficult for them to exist.  

In the case of the terrorists...  I believe that we have the advantage.. I believe that their cause is so backward and untenable that they can only win support by opression and keeping people in the dark... when an example of how good life really can be is shown.. they look like the 9 th century terrorists that they are,

I believe that they are trapped... that they have no choice but fight this losing battle in Iraq.

I did notice that the latest reports show a 70% improvement in violence since june...  since the surge... they can't even keep it up over there... much less here... no attacks here... less there... seems that if we are not "winning" at least they are losing.

They are the ones stuck having to win... it is their world that is getting smaller.. not ours.

It is not that we are creating two for every one we kill... it is that we are drawing out every one that can possibly be that nutty.   eventually there simply won't be enough 9th century nutjobs left in the world to keep up the movement.  There simply won't be any places for em to breed..

lazs


Just my opinions...

all that I agree... yet it has lived and fought for many centuries and ebbs and flows... taking shocks and coming back again and again. It has never stopped breathing... ever, since it started. it gets slowed down but charges up.

The heads grow in the shadows to strike again not like reenforcements for an army. They fight the endurance way and think in centuries. They have been cutting us for centuries and are proud of that... technology gives them bigger opportunities as never before... and they bleed us internally where we don't really notice but yet it weakens us.

Nuclear is their real weapon of choice... probably placed an order for what they want with N. Korea and may be delivered to them in view of the nuclear idle down now in N.K.

TIGERESS
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 03:55:25 PM by Tigeress »

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #101 on: October 23, 2007, 03:12:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
did you read the link, general bin laden is telling his troops in Iraq to shape up because they are losing the war.


I'm not making fun of the link. I'm making fun of your rhetorical conclusion. ;)

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #102 on: October 23, 2007, 04:46:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
You're very ironic:

"The immediate cause of the First Crusade was Alexius I's appeal to Pope Urban II for mercenaries to help him resist Muslim advances into territory of the Byzantine Empire. In 1071, at the Battle of Manzikert, the Byzantine Empire was defeated, which led to the loss of all of Asia Minor (modern Turkey) save the coastlands."

"On a popular level, the first crusades unleashed a wave of impassioned, personally felt pious Christian fury that was expressed in the massacres of Jews that accompanied the movement of the Crusader mobs through Europe, as well as the violent treatment of "schismatic" Orthodox Christians of the east. During many of the attacks on Jews, local Bishops and Christians made attempts to protect Jews from the mobs that were passing through. Jews were often offered sanctuary in churches and other Christian buildings, but the mobs broke in and killed them anyway.

In the 13th century, Crusades never expressed such a popular fever, and after Acre fell for the last time in 1291 and the Occitan Cathars were exterminated during the Albigensian Crusade, the crusading ideal became devalued by Papal justifications of political and territorial aggressions within Catholic Europe.

The last crusading order of knights to hold territory were the Knights Hospitaller. After the final fall of Acre, they took control of the island of Rhodes, and in the sixteenth century, were driven to Malta, before being finally unseated by Napoleon Bonaparte in 1798."

Read more on the specific crusades in detail here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

You're welcome. :)


I'm sorry.  I assumed that you knew what Total War is.  You don't.
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Offline Arlo

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« Reply #103 on: October 23, 2007, 04:58:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'm sorry.  I assumed that you knew what Total War is.  You don't.


Actually, your assertion is that a war cannot be won in any other way than "total war." You then tried to claim the Cold War was just economic so it didn't count. You then tried to claim that "star wars" was "total war", so it did. You then go on about there being some holy crusades against the Muslims "won" by total war. You also said you weren't going to reply to me anymore.

The days of me not taking you seriously have definately come to a middle.

:D

Offline RedTop

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« Reply #104 on: October 23, 2007, 05:23:55 PM »
I'm still waiting on Arlo's answer to my questions?
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