General Climate Discussion

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Could it have anything to do with this...?

So you're agreeing that solar activity has steadily increased for decades as indicated at least until 2000? How much has the earth's temperature increased since 2000?

Please don't try to deny sun spots have nothing to do with the earth's climate. That was the whole point of the cosmic ray link you provided.

[straffo]

Originally posted by AKIron
I think no one will disagree that lazs needs no one to answer for or defend him but I've yet to see him miss an opportunity to respond in detail to every point made in this thread. His responses are far removed from the insults and claims that "facts" have been "debunked" without a shred of supporting evidence. Lazs may be many things but hardly as you have characterized him here.

In the past I tried repeatedly to make Laz use some basic logic.

He failed loudly, so I characterize him like he is.

[Louis XVII]

Originally posted by AKIron
I think no one will disagree that lazs needs no one to answer for or defend him but I've yet to see him miss an opportunity to respond in detail to every point made in this thread.

Originally posted by AKIron
His responses are far removed from the insults and claims that "facts" have been "debunked" without a shred of supporting evidence.  

Yeah right. "It's the sun stupid" pretty much covers everything there is to know about global climate change, "in detail".

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by AKIron
So you're agreeing that solar activity has steadily increased for decades as indicated at least until 2000?
 

Obviously no. Lets try again shall we...


But a new analysis of data on the sun's output in the last 25 years of the 20th century has firmly put the notion to rest. The data shows that even though the sun's activity has been decreasing since 1985, global temperatures have continued to rise at an accelerating rate.

[Angus]

Well...
The data shows that even though the sun's activity has been decreasing since 1985, global temperatures have continued to rise at an accelerating rate.

And co2 goes up. Lazs says it's the sun...how stupid is that then?
I wonder if I get banned if I change my sig to "IT AINT JUST THE SUN, avacado!"

[MajIssue]

Originally posted by Hortlund


Dear God, this stuff was debunked 6 months ago, and we still have people around coming up with this anus of an argument.

Quick question, if the energy from the sun is increasing, why is the temperature on Venus (closest to the sun you know? Of cource you dont) not rising?

Well, if that is your best evidence, then its time for you to switch sides and join our side. Unfortunately you need something at least resembling a normal intelligence level to understand the basics behind global warming, so you might feel a tad missplaced here with us. [/B]

Debunked by whom????
  Please cite your evidence sir!

   I never cease to be amazed that when confronted by a reasoned discussion the human caused global warming "faithful" invariably start name calling (example: those who have a healthy skepticism posess less than "normal" intelligence). I liken those that practice this global warming "religon" to those that were convinced by "scientific consensus" in recent history (400 years ago give or take a few) that the Earth was the center of the Universe!

   As for Venus, I really think that a basic understanding of atmospheric dynamics  and the composition of the solar system would illuminate the unique position that Venus occupies among the rocky planets of the inner the solar system. The atmosphere on that body is over 100 times more dense that what we enjoy here. Additionally Venus is half again as close to the Sun, and has a retrograde revolution! Comparisons of the climate on the Earth and Venus is like comparing a volleyball to a bowling ball! At first glance they appear almost identical, but an examination of their properties reveals that they are vastly different objects.

   You will have to come up with something better than pseudo-science and the slogans of the radical left to convince me sir!

 Please explain the large fluctuations in the global mean temperatue (as evidenced by deep ocean sediments and Ice cores that occured long before the advent of human industrail technology.

   I stand by my statement that the climate is warmer because it is supposed to be!

[MajIssue]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Didnt I just tell you that since 1985, solar activity has been decreasing? did you not see that part? Did you not understand it? Or are you ignoring it (ie going "naa naa naa")?

Your side never changes. Always wrong, always making s hit up, always ignoring facts, always trying to distort facts, spin the truth and grab isolated statements out of context pretending they mean something they dont. Its beyond pathetic.

You sir have REALLY drank the Kool-aid haven't you?!
  Can't win an argument with facts? Simple... Call them names!

   I say again sir cite your sources!!!  

   You need to read a little more than the Wikipedia article about the solar cycle... There are short and LONG term cycles. Also (I will say this  S L O W L E Y    so the    F A I T H F U L     can     U N D E R S T A N D)  our sun is a irregular variable star! This means that the amount of energy emmited by it CHANGES  over an IRRIGULAR  time period. Those that preach human caused global warming have a  P O L I T I C A L  agenda!   They base their argument on on an extremly narrow data set that is of such a short duration that it is mind boggling.  Also the computer models used to support their conclusions do not factor in  precipitation among other dynamics in the atmosphere!!!

[lazs2]

my my...listen to the wailing and knashing of teeth...  so sad.

I love the logic of this.. "it can't be the sun because suns activity (never mind solar wind) has gone slowly down since 85"  never mind that the temp is now going down..  you have to look at charts after 2000... something they don't like showing.

I like the logic that says... "sure c02 has lagged temp change for eons but now it is different" but...  says that... if the suns activity goes down and the earths temp does not instantly go down with it.. then.. it can't be the sun... even tho..  a chart on any scale at all would still show the temp FOLLOWING the suns activity and still show the co2 lagging temp.

even the most dishonest of the MMGW priests admit that the sun is at least responsible for 25% of the increase (big of em)..  that leaves 75%..  they don't even claim man makes up all of that.

And... what has happened?  how bad is it?   who is being hurt?   World wide crop production is up....   some places have had milder winters.. not all but some... this natural global warming had been nothing but a good thing.

no one has drown from the tenth of an inch rise per year in the ocean level.. no one is in any danger of drowning in the near future.

What bad things have happened?  hell... we even have an increase in the polar bear population.

But... the good times won't last.. the temp is going down.   0.04 degrees in the last 7 years.

so for now... relax.. enjoy the sun... get a tan... enjoy the fresh fruit and veggies and don't worry too much about the doom predicted for 100 years from now by guys who can't tell you next weeks weather much less next weeks... whos computer models have only predicted the past so far.

lazs

[Angus]

MajIssue:
"Those that preach human caused global warming have a P O L I T I C A L agenda!"

Rubbish. Since the sources are everywhere (climatology/metreology, biology, oceanology, agriculture and even urbanism), a conspiracy theory there simply doesn't work.
However, those "scientists" trying to debunk notonly MMGW, but GW seem to have a common link to oil money in quite some numbers.
So, those who preach that GW is not happening have an E C O N O M I C A L agenda!!!!

And Lazs...Looking at the charts after 2000 shows you what? Oh, rising CO2, lowered solar activity, and higher temperatures. No wonder that the program "the great GW swindle" had it's graphs ending some 17 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!

FRAUD AND SCANDAL.

[lazs2]

no.. temps are going down.    I think that almost everyone agrees that the average global temp has gone down about 0.04 degrees in the last 7 years.

It is time to panic... if you project this horrifying drop in temp... why.. by the year 2100... we will all freeze!!!!!

so tell me.. what horrible things have happened so far?   better crops?    show me the computer model that ever predicted the future and not the past.   What is gonna happen in 5 years?  what bad things?  what bad things in 10 years?

Someone did say.. we really don't know but.. we do know that the math on co2 just doesn't add up.  

and if it did.. say our tiny little contribution could be changing the entire planet... well.. not much we can do.. at best.. we can reduce our contribution by 20% in the next 10 or 20 years...  probly not at all considering emerging nations..   and to what point... if co2 really is the problem...

wouldn't we be better off putting out a few simple coal fires?  surely..  the great and powerful oz who controls the weather of the entire planet can put out a couple of fires?

lazs

[lazs2]

sraffo stuttered out..."In the past I tried repeatedly to make Laz use some basic logic.

He failed loudly, so I characterize him like he is."

ok... I am calling you on it frenchy... please quote me something...  of all the things you have ever written.. none are more than a few disjointed sentences that don't even follow the thread so yeah... I want to see where you "repeatedly" tried to make me use some basic logic.  

you sir.. are making things up.

lazs

[Angus]

Lazs:
"no.. temps are going down. I think that almost everyone agrees that the average global temp has gone down about 0.04 degrees in the last 7 years."

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH. Please please find me a source for this.

Oh, and as for world crops, remember to divide with the area used .....

Edit---add-on
And while you're at it, find a source for the unimportant-yet important coal fires who burn gladly without using much oxygen

[lazs2]

angus.. I have linked it before..

as for crops.. are you saying that the increased co2 has not increased crop yeild?

but.. back to the point.. what bad has happened?  every other natural warm spell has been good for man...  so has this one.

so why are you so upset?

lazs

[straffo]

Originally posted by lazs2
sraffo stuttered out..."In the past I tried repeatedly to make Laz use some basic logic.

He failed loudly, so I characterize him like he is."

ok... I am calling you on it frenchy... please quote me something...  of all the things you have ever written.. none are more than a few disjointed sentences that don't even follow the thread so yeah... I want to see where you "repeatedly" tried to make me use some basic logic.  

you sir.. are making things up.

lazs

Knowing you since about 3 year, I doubt any answer will change your mind.

I'll take the time tomorrow to look at some of your past gem I stored for future use.

But I guess you willl like the last time divert on another subject .

[AKH]

Originally posted by lazs2
you sir.. are making things up.

So laz, how much coal did China consume last year?