Author Topic: General Climate Discussion  (Read 110502 times)

Offline MORAY37

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #540 on: November 14, 2007, 10:51:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MajIssue
Good Post Sabre!

   The best evidence I can cite is: The global mean temperature on MARS has risen during the last 50 years.

   Now unless Halliburton and the Bush/Cheny cabal [:rolleyes:]has started dumping millions of tons of CO2 into the Martian atmosphere, Its is safe to assume that the variation of total solar luminesence (it is a fact that our sun is a variable star) has risen.

   A normal/sane person without a whacked out political agenda could only conclude that the reason the average global mean temperature has gone up (marginally) over the last 50 years is because the sun is emmiting more energy! The Earth is warmer for the same reason Mars is warmer... It's supposed to be warmer, and this "effect" is part of the suns natural variability cycle.

   We humans will do what wehave always done... adapt to the ever changing climate on our fragile speck of dust in the vastness of the cosmos.

   A more reasoned response to all this climate change hysteria would be to start looking for another planet that can sustain us, because in a few billion (thats a few thousand million) years we won't have a planet to call home anymore, as earth will be reduced to a smoldering cinder orbiting a white dwarf star that used to be our life giving sun!:aok



Ummm... Mars is RED.  RED soaks up more heat.... especially since the dust storms of the past 15 years on Mars, which uncovered older, darker material...  you really need to read more.
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #541 on: November 14, 2007, 10:57:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shuffler
I still can't help but laugh about the 2 Global Warming meetings in Chicago.... cancelled because of heavy snow....   :rofl



I can't help laughing because people think that snow ISN't a sign of global warming.


..like snow in the sahara desert.  No, that can't have anything to do with more moisture in the air.  People are simpletons.  You just can't put the pieces together in your heads.
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #542 on: November 14, 2007, 11:00:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
angus.. I have linked it before..

as for crops.. are you saying that the increased co2 has not increased crop yeild?

but.. back to the point.. what bad has happened?  every other natural warm spell has been good for man...  so has this one.

so why are you so upset?

lazs


Every other "WARM spell" hasn't occured with 6 billion people on the planet, HALF of which struggle for a single meal every day.  Your diluted logic is enviable... because it lacks any sort of wisdom WHATSOEVER....therefore you can't be responsible for it.
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Offline Hortlund

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #543 on: November 15, 2007, 01:21:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MajIssue
Debunked by whom????
  Please cite your evidence sir!
[/b]

Oh dear. I know you must be swimming in the shallow end of the IQ pool since you are in the anti-environment corner, but I never figured it would be this bad. Have you ANY idea how stupid you appear when you ask for evidence in the middle of a discussion of such evidence? The link I posted something like 10 posts ago explain why mars is warming. The link I posted after that explain that solar activity has been decreasing since 1985. And then you appear here to ask me to cite my evidence? Off to special class lad.

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   I never cease to be amazed that when confronted by a reasoned discussion the human caused global warming "faithful" invariably start name calling (example: those who have a healthy skepticism posess less than "normal" intelligence). I liken those that practice this global warming "religon" to those that were convinced by "scientific consensus" in recent history (400 years ago give or take a few) that the Earth was the center of the Universe!
[/b]
Except practically everyone in the anti-environment corner are there because they fail to understand basic science. With no knowledge whatsoever they arm themselves with quotes from any random anti-environment website and dive into the discussion...much like you did here. And no, googling or ripping quotes from an anti-environment website does not count as education, knowledge or understanding. Sorry.

The fact that you liken those who understand global warming with those who believed that the earth was the center of the universe only gives us yet another insight into your lack of education. Apparently you have no idea about the scientific method and how that has changed in the past 400 years.

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   As for Venus, I really think that a basic understanding of atmospheric dynamics  and the composition of the solar system would illuminate the unique position that Venus occupies among the rocky planets of the inner the solar system. The atmosphere on that body is over 100 times more dense that what we enjoy here. Additionally Venus is half again as close to the Sun, and has a retrograde revolution! Comparisons of the climate on the Earth and Venus is like comparing a volleyball to a bowling ball! At first glance they appear almost identical, but an examination of their properties reveals that they are vastly different objects.
[/b]
Venus spins the other way? Is that the best you've got? Dear God.

Basically there are two problems with your "its the sun, because mars is getting warmer"-theory.
1) Solar output has been decreasing since 1985.
2) The warming of Mars is explained by other reasons.

Now, to a person with normal intelligence and education, the first point would be enough. Its impossible to blame the sun for the warming, when the sun is decreasing (less heat is coming from the sun).

But no.

You guys sit here, and claim, with a straight face, that the sun is responsible for the warming, despite the fact that the sun is getting cooler, while temperature is rising over here. And you ask me why I call you guys stupid? You ask me why it is so often that you retards are ridiculed in discussions like these? Priceless.

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   You will have to come up with something better than pseudo-science and the slogans of the radical left to convince me sir!
[/b]

Ive directed you to two peer-reviewed articles published in respected scientific magasines. That you try to call that "pseudo-science" just (again) displays your own ignorance.

The scientific method. Google it or what the f uck ever you do when you try to get educated on some subject.

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 Please explain the large fluctuations in the global mean temperatue (as evidenced by deep ocean sediments and Ice cores that occured long before the advent of human industrail technology.
[/b]
Sure. Ice-ages.

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   I stand by my statement that the climate is warmer because it is supposed to be!

How sweet.

Offline Hortlund

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #544 on: November 15, 2007, 01:28:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

I love the logic of this.. "it can't be the sun because suns activity (never mind solar wind) has gone slowly down since 85"  never mind that the temp is now going down..  you have to look at charts after 2000... something they don't like showing.
[/b]

Again you lie. You f ucking dishonest scum.


Global temperatures in 2003 were 0.56°C (1.01°F) above the long-term (1880-2003) average**, ranking 2003 the second warmest year on record, which tied 2002. The warmest year on record is 1998 with an anomaly of +0.63°C (+1.13°F). Land temperatures in 2003 were 0.83°C (1.50°F) above average, ranking third in the period of record while ocean temperatures ranked as second warmest with 0.44°C (0.80°F) above the 1880-2003 mean.


Global average surface temperatures pushed 2005 into a virtual tie with 1998 as the hottest year on record worldwide.[1] For people living in the Northern Hemisphere—most of the world's population—2005 was the hottest year on record since 1880, the earliest year for which reliable instrumental records were available worldwide.




When are you going to stop with the lies? When is enough enough? If you are going to be in the discussion, then at least do us the f ucking courtesy of NOT JUST MAKING S HIT UP TO FIT YOUR AGENDA. You worthless f uck.


This chart shows the latest figures (it goes up to 2006)


Offline wrag

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #545 on: November 15, 2007, 03:07:45 AM »
Hortland...............

IMHO if you are unable to discuss the issue without name calling, cursing, and getting all emotional ( hey maybe you're not getting emotional but it sure looks that way!)

Then perhaps you needs to back off just a little, calm down, and rethink your approach?

Because IMHO you have LOST this discussion, if for no other reason then a lack of manners.

BTW I have yet to see a reply, by anyone, about the claims made by the so called scientist in the early 1970s that we heading for an Ice Age.  I remember watching the news and seeing the rabid claims put forward in a very similar manner.

IMHO much of this kind of stuff, the Ice Age we were heading for, the global warming we are now headed for, and some of the other stuff that the media continues to put out. Is done in part because it SELLS!  It gets your attention makes them MONEY!  

IMHO the MAJOR reason it gets put out is CONTROL!

Make people afraid!

Then tell them you can save them!  

BUT there is this little thing involved.

YOU MUST give me CONTROL of everything in order for me to save YOU!

Come on now :D

It's a small price to pay :D

I promise it won't hurt even a little bit :D

TRUST ME! (Even if I am a politician):D :D
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline Hortlund

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #546 on: November 15, 2007, 03:11:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by wrag

Because IMHO you have LOST this discussion, if for no other reason then a lack of manners.
[/b]

LOL yeah, I hope that works out for you in the future. Well, the other side was dead wrong, but they were polite...so they got my vote.

Offline Hortlund

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #547 on: November 15, 2007, 03:15:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by wrag
IMHO much of this kind of stuff, the Ice Age we were heading for, the global warming we are now headed for, and some of the other stuff that the media continues to put out. Is done in part because it SELLS!  It gets your attention makes them MONEY!  


The side with the financial stake in this debate is hte anti-environment guys. They are funded by huge companies that sell fuel, oil, power, cars. All of which will lose economically if people took the actions required to cut back on CO2 emissions.

Offline wrag

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #548 on: November 15, 2007, 03:22:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund


LOL yeah, I hope that works out for you in the future. Well, the other side was dead wrong, but they were polite...so they got my vote. [/B]


IMHO I see NO proof that the other side is DEAD WRONG!

I see charts and such.  I've seen charts and such that say the opposite as well.

Perhaps I can get you to understand something.

I do NOT TRUST Al Gore.

I have difficulty trusting MANY of those that have publicly come out on the side of GLOBAL WARMING.

Why?  Because so many of them are driving around in big expensive SUV's and traveling all over in JETS, and using great amounts of energy to heat or cool themselves.

Also I still remember the BIG "Ice Age" thing in the early 70's.

Now it's no longer going to be an "Ice Age", now it's gonna get HOT instead?

IMHO the jury is still out!

Sure some in HOLLYWEIRD are makin movies.

It's called showmanship!

Perhaps the best approach here is to relax, set back, think about the issues a little more, look for a few more facts, and CALM DOWN?
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline wrag

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #549 on: November 15, 2007, 03:35:31 AM »
BTW Hortland that chart you're showing...

does it take into account the volcano that exploded just a little earlier?

Wasn't it called Krakatoa or something?

Didn't it cause some serious dust, ash, and other stuff?

Didn't it COOL things down all over the globe?

I also seem to recall something about the Norse/Vikings actually farming wheat in Iceland, or was it Greenland, around 1000?

And something happened that created some very nasty weather.  It was so bad they abandoned their farming there?

Something about some records at an Irish monastery talking about the sky being DARK for many days or months?  It was about the time St. Patrick was supposed to have arrived in Ireland.

It's actually possible that we have repeatedly had things happen that have COOLED the earth down from it NORMAL temperature?

Records indicate that in the past the earth has been HOTTER then it is now.
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline AKH

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #550 on: November 15, 2007, 03:38:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by wrag
BTW I have yet to see a reply, by anyone, about the so called claims made by the scientist in the early 1970s that we heading for an Ice Age.

Fixed.

Was an imminent Ice Age predicted in the '70's? No

Of course, you could just take Michael Crichton’s word on the subject, "in the 1970's all the climate scientists believed an ice age was coming"  :rolleyes:
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Offline Louis XVII

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #551 on: November 15, 2007, 03:55:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
LOL yeah, I hope that works out for you in the future. Well, the other side was dead wrong, but they were polite...so they got my vote.
:rofl

:aok

Offline Hortlund

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #552 on: November 15, 2007, 03:58:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by wrag
IMHO I see NO proof that the other side is DEAD WRONG!
[/b]
See previous comment about shallow end in the IQ-pool.


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Perhaps the best approach here is to relax, set back, think about the issues a little more, look for a few more facts, and CALM DOWN?


Nope, doesnt work that way. We have all the evidence we need. And by doing nothing, we are making the problem worse. You are about as smart right now as a guy sitting on the third floor of a burning building going "relax, the fire has only reached the first and second floors, I dont need to worry about burning up until it has reached this floor". Of cource, what he (you) fails to understand is that by then it is too late.

Offline Hortlund

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #553 on: November 15, 2007, 04:03:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by wrag
BTW Hortland that chart you're showing...

does it take into account the volcano that exploded just a little earlier?

Wasn't it called Krakatoa or something?

Didn't it cause some serious dust, ash, and other stuff?

Didn't it COOL things down all over the globe?

I also seem to recall something about the Norse/Vikings actually farming wheat in Iceland, or was it Greenland, around 1000?

And something happened that created some very nasty weather.  It was so bad they abandoned their farming there?

Something about some records at an Irish monastery talking about the sky being DARK for many days or months?  It was about the time St. Patrick was supposed to have arrived in Ireland.

It's actually possible that we have repeatedly had things happen that have COOLED the earth down from it NORMAL temperature?
[/b]
Well, lets look shall we?


Offline Angus

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #554 on: November 15, 2007, 07:56:57 AM »
Short facts here.

- Warming is established, and Lazs quotes some quote I can't even find. The only thing dead sure is that it's quite a bit warmer.

- Krakatau was big and made some quick cooling effect. There was another bigger one in Indonesia though. And then in Iceland 1783-1786, which cooled the atmosphere all the way down to Egypt, - and for years, Benjamin Franklin pondered on that, and believed it was Mt Hekla, which it wasn't.

And:
"I also seem to recall something about the Norse/Vikings actually farming wheat in Iceland, or was it Greenland, around 1000?"

Wheat, no. Barley yes, and rhye as well, both of which are tougher and faster than wheat. However TODAY, guess what...We've been growing Barley on growing scales for some 20 years after almost 1000 years of not being able to. And now we are starting with wheat with some success, - which was pointless some 20 years ago.
BTW, this is nothing from wiki, I am IN this growing business myself!

In Greenland they didn't manage to grow anything special apart from grass in the era, but now they do cabbage, turnips and potatoes....
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)