Author Topic: General Climate Discussion  (Read 105822 times)

Offline lazs2

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #810 on: December 14, 2007, 09:04:50 AM »
moray..rather than your email.,.. check this site.
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/monckton_papers/consensus_what_consensus_among_climate_scientists_the_debate_is_not_over.html

It explains the peer reviewed papers you talk about in great detail... 6 pages worth.

it concludes with....

"Oreskes’ essay is now outdated. Since it was published, more than 8,000 further papers on climate change have been published in the learned journals. In these papers, there is a discernible and accelerating trend away from unanimity even on her limited definition of “consensus”.

Schulte (2007: submitted) has brought Oreskes’ essay up to date by examining the 539 abstracts found using her search phrase “global climate change” between 2004 (her search had ended in 2003) and mid-February 2007. Even if Oreskes’ commentary in Science were true, the “consensus” has moved very considerably away from the unanimity she says she found.

Dr. Schulte’s results show that about 1.5% of the papers (just 9 out of 539) explicitly endorse the “consensus”, even in the limited sense defined by Oreskes. Though Oreskes found that 75% of the papers she reviewed explicitly or implicitly endorsed the “consensus”, Dr. Schulte’s review of subsequent papers shows that fewer than half now give some degree of endorsement to the “consensus”. The abstract of his paper is worth quoting in full:
“Fear of anthropogenic ‘global warming’ can adversely affect patients’ well-being. Accordingly, the state of the scientific consensus about climate change was studied by a review of the 539 papers on “global climate change” found on the Web of Science database from January 2004 to mid-February 2007, updating research by Oreskes (2004), who had reported that between 1993 and 2003 none of 928 scientific papers on “global climate change” had rejected the consensus that more than half of the warming of the past 50 years was likely to have been anthropogenic. In the present review, 32 papers (6% of the sample) explicitly or implicitly reject the consensus. Though Oreskes said that 75% of the papers in her sample endorsed the consensus, fewer than half now endorse it. Only 7% do so explicitly. Only one paper refers to “catastrophic” climate change, but without offering evidence. There appears to be little evidence in the learned journals to justify the climate-change alarm that now harms patients.”

If we go by your theory that there was a "consensus" that was complete up till 2003

we have to conclude that the alarmists are losing ground at an alarming rate!!!  

We might have to give the survivors carbon credits just to keep em going!!!

lazs

Offline Toad

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #811 on: December 14, 2007, 01:58:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Is he right inspite of being a neocon etc.? Are neocons allowed to be correct?


No, neocons are never correct. In fact, not knowing that proves you are a neocon.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Maverick

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #812 on: December 14, 2007, 02:00:28 PM »
Damn, I was afraid of that. I guess I'll never be able to move to Bermuda now.......  :cry
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Offline Holden McGroin

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #813 on: December 14, 2007, 02:12:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by clerick
It would drop, the amount of the drop would depend on the density of the ice.  


The amount of water floating ice displaces is precisely equal to the weight of the entire piece of ice, regardless of density.

When floating ice melts, the level of the water it floats in remains unchanged.
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Offline lasersailor184

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #814 on: December 14, 2007, 03:07:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The amount of water floating ice displaces is precisely equal to the weight of the entire piece of ice, regardless of density.

When floating ice melts, the level of the water it floats in remains unchanged.


But, given that water is one of the only few materials that expands when solidifying, if an Ice Cube is under water / at the surface (but not above), it loses volume when it changes back to water.


So under that fact, what is wrong in thinking that the water level would go down upon the melting of the ice, rather than staying at the same level?
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Offline clerick

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #815 on: December 14, 2007, 03:19:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The amount of water floating ice displaces is precisely equal to the weight of the entire piece of ice, regardless of density.


Correct, but what takes up more space; a pound of water or a pound of ice?  Of course ice's density can vary depending on specific composition and temperature.

*slightly off topic*
IIRC i believe that the Allies toyed with the idea of Ice ships at one point, dont recall if they ever came to be.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2007, 03:24:34 PM by clerick »

Offline T0J0

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #816 on: December 14, 2007, 03:21:06 PM »
The world was flat, so flat that bright scientists were hung or quartered for
being heretic's by the leaders of the time...
Today;s green scammer and yesterday's flat world scammer have not changed much.  Every time we point out a global warming is man made Lie the reply is generally "thats old news" The idea being that if they interrupt enough with the
"thats old news" line  with the spit flying out of their mouths and hitting your face it will get old and you have to walk away.

To believe that Global warming is man made when science has yet to define its cause or without letting science take its natural course would make you green scammers "Science deniers"

TJ

Offline clerick

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #817 on: December 14, 2007, 03:26:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by T0J0
The world was flat, so flat that bright scientists were hung or quartered for
being heretic's by the leaders of the time...
Today;s green scammer and yesterday's flat world scammer have not changed much.  Every time we point out a global warming is man made Lie the reply is generally "thats old news" The idea being that if they interrupt enough with the
"thats old news" line  with the spit flying out of their mouths and hitting your face it will get old and you have to walk away.

To believe that Global warming is man made when science has yet to define its cause or without letting science take its natural course would make you green scammers "Science deniers"

TJ


I believe that Rips signature quote is right on the money...
 The activists now prefer to call it “climate change”. This gives them two advantages:

"It allows them to seize as “evidence” the inevitable occurrences of unusually cold weather as well as warm ones. The climate is always changing, so they must be right."
--John Brignill

Offline AKIron

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #818 on: December 14, 2007, 03:32:05 PM »
The UN lie?!? UNpossible.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline lasersailor184

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #819 on: December 14, 2007, 03:34:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by T0J0
The world was flat, so flat that bright scientists were hung or quartered for
being heretic's by the leaders of the time...
Today;s green scammer and yesterday's flat world scammer have not changed much.  Every time we point out a global warming is man made Lie the reply is generally "thats old news" The idea being that if they interrupt enough with the
"thats old news" line  with the spit flying out of their mouths and hitting your face it will get old and you have to walk away.

To believe that Global warming is man made when science has yet to define its cause or without letting science take its natural course would make you green scammers "Science deniers"

TJ


Actually, the thought that people believed the world was flat was a myth created in the 1880's (might be wrong on the decade).


Anyone who spent any time on the water, or even casually looking at the heavens could figure out that the earth wasn't flat.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Nilsen

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #820 on: December 14, 2007, 04:23:06 PM »

Offline john9001

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #821 on: December 14, 2007, 04:26:45 PM »
the world is flat and unicorns have sticky feet so they can walk on the botton side.

Offline Holden McGroin

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #822 on: December 14, 2007, 04:43:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by clerick
Correct, but what takes up more space; a pound of water or a pound of ice?  Of course ice's density can vary depending on specific composition and temperature.


The more space that the ice takes up can be found above the waterline.

Regardless of density, a lb of floating ice displaces a lb of water.  When the lbs of ice melts, the lb of melted ice will weigh a lb, and will still displace a lb of water.  The level of the water before and after will be exaclty the same.

Google Archemedies.  (sp?) he figured this out long ago.
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Offline clerick

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #823 on: December 14, 2007, 05:11:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The more space that the ice takes up can be found above the waterline.

Regardless of density, a lb of floating ice displaces a lb of water.  When the lbs of ice melts, the lb of melted ice will weigh a lb, and will still displace a lb of water.  The level of the water before and after will be exaclty the same.

Google Archemedies.  (sp?) he figured this out long ago.


You don't quite have it right.  A pound of ice that displaces a pound of water will not float but will be suspended in the water.  Place it at any depth and it will stay where you placed it.

There are three states that an object within a fluid can have; positively buoyant, neutrally buoyant and negatively buoyant.

When an object is negatively buoyant it is unable to displace a volume of fluid with a weight at least equal to its own weight.

When an object is neutrally buoyant it is displacing a volume of fluid that weighs exactly the same as its own weight.

When it is positive it is displacing a volume of fluid that weighs more then its own weight.

Density is integral in all of this.  By changing the overall density of the object we can make it sink or float or remain neutral.  Take a ship for example.  It is made out of steel which, when compressed into its desist configuration, will sink in water.  However, decrease the ships overall density, by forming a structure with airspaces et.c., and the same weight of steel will float.  It is the relative densities that are causing the weight to be displaced.

Ice is no different.  It is frozen water that, through expansion and the addition of air spaces, displaces a volume of water that weighs more then the ice itself, which is why it floats.  It is the ice's lower density that allows this to happen.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2007, 05:14:54 PM by clerick »

Offline bj229r

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Re: General Climate Discussion
« Reply #824 on: December 14, 2007, 05:20:32 PM »
Yes or no: There has been a roughly ONE DEGREE rise over the least 100 years?---Is this ONE DEGREE supposed to be causing all this, or is the damage what they THINK will happen in the future as that ONE DEGREE goes to 5 or 10?

Here's some neat debunking/investigation articles
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11648
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071212201954.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316566,00.html
http://www.climate-skeptic.com/temperature_measurement/index.html
Quote
Finding out what is actually happening to the ice is not easy. Radar measurements of the height of the ice over parts of the continent suggest that the huge East Antarctic ice sheet grew slightly between 1992 and 2003.

A more recent study based on satellite measurements of gravity over the entire continent suggests that while the ice sheets in the interior of Antarctica are growing thicker, even more ice is being lost from the peripheries. The study concluded that there was a net loss of ice between 2002 and 2005, adding 0.4 millimetres per year to sea levels (see Gravity reveals shrinking Antarctic ice). Most of the ice was lost from the smaller West Antarctic ice sheet.

Son of a B****......FOUR TENTHS OF ONE MILLIMETER 4 YEARS! In a couple thousand years at current warming trends.....(ahem...which presumes we will still be burning fossil fuels...)
Hmm..was not North America once covered by glaciers? What made them poof?
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