General Climate Discussion

[avionix]

What you ask of me, is a calculus that is flaky with experts at it armed with supercomputers.

What you seem to be saying here, is that the math the scientists are using is at best flawed.  Remember, that even though these "super scientists" are using super computers, they are still human and a computer is going to output flawed logic if flawed stats are put in.  To think that man has as big of an effect on the climate as you say, is in my mind absurd.  Outside forces has more of an effect than we do.

[lazs2]

I get about 1560 times.. if it is so simple then why did we all get different answers?   

It is meaningless to the discussion in any case tho.   it does nothing about or tells us nothing about the current mild warming trend or what is the cause(s).   

The math I had to do for my latest certificate took up 3 pages of formulas.  we could use nothing but a calculator.. you had to know the rest.  it is useless stuff of course and I forgot the stuff the instant I left the room.. good riddance.. it is all plugged into my computer in any case or... I can just plug in the numbers from the formulas that are in any book on the subject.

The reason the supercomputers are wrong is because they can't predict the interactions of dozens of things that affect climate.   the possibilities are endless and any result can be had if you manipulate the data just a tad..  they constantly prove this by being wrong about the past as well as the future..

lazs

[Baitman]

In the early Seventies the world was worrying about global cooling. The glaciers in the North of BC were actually growing. I do believe however that we are effecting our ecosystem too much and need to change. I have had GeoThermal heat in my house since 1999.

 I do know that too much of our farm land is being bought up by our large corporations as we all move into the city and become more dependant on them.

[Angus]

1000 or 2000 TIMES tell you all you need.....The thermal energy stored in the atmosphere is very very little compared to what there is in sea and Ice. In fact, the ice alone stores a lot more energy than the whole atmosphere.
So much for my back yard,
It is warming, the only diversion from it is pockets of the atmosphere.
The "why" is another thing.
I doesn't seem to be the sun alone. But this you'll like Lazs....I think the CO2 link is overrated......

[lazs2]

yet... that is all that the lefties base their whole "man made global warming" house of cards on..  it is nothing but man made carbon.

It is far more likely that mans contribution to this current pleasant warm period is so insignificant that we need to do nothing but wait for mother nature to make another natural and normal swing..  it is beyond arrogant to think that we will not only be able to change the climate of the globe but.. can predict what will happen 100 years from now even  tho we...  well..  to use your iceberg venacular.. even tho we don't even know the tip of the iceberg so far as global climate goes.

If something underwater like underwater volcanoes are heating your little corner of the planet then all the 40mpg cars in the world won't change that..   me giving money to algore to broker for "carbon credits" to make a few con men rich will not do a damn thing.

lazs

[Baitman]

This last year in BC we had the most snow and cold temperatures in many many years. The result of that there was very little on the news broadcasts of Global Warming.

I have heard tell of a volcano producing the same amount of CO in 1 day as we as a people do in a few years.

[Jackal1]

Oh no! I feel an outbreak of Angus charts coming on. 

[Baitman]

MMMM Red Angus Chops

[Angus]

Or the receiving end af an Angus
Now Lazs, regarding the underseas volcanoes....
I have seen no evidence that they've suddenly started popping up like crazy.
However they are being discovered one by the other, as ocean floor exploration proceeds.
Shouldn't mix that up.
Anyway, there is no reason to belive otherwise that the density of volcanoes on the seabed is and has been roughly similar to those on land.
BTW, I have been at sea, and spent hours in the helm looking at the scanners. I was baffled about how much data there was available about the ocean floor. And we never had our nets burn, nor fill with cooked fish. So I will allow my self to name your pop-up-waterbed-volcanoe theory a STRAW.

You may strive for that our human contribution to GW (Which you have frequently debated as well) is insignificant. There we disagree, for since the earths surface plays a large part in both reflecting, spreading or absorbing heat, our effect on the planet's surface is anything but small. And so are other greenhouse gases, such as methane, which for instance gets released in large quantities due to wetland canalizing etc.
So, IMHO the CO2 crowd tends to overlook this.

[avionix]

Methane!!!!!  Was wondering when someon e would mention this.  Animals that eat plant life (ie. cows, elephants, herbivores and yes even people) release copious amount of methane in the form of flatulance.  One of the Norwegian coutries did a study on this not too long ago and claimed that this was a major source of the methane release into the atmosphere.  So, is the GW crowd going to start metering how much I release and tax me for it?  I'll be danged if you try to put a meter on my butt. 

[Jackal1]

Methane!!!!!  Was wondering when someon e would mention this.  Animals that eat plant life (ie. cows, elephants, herbivores and yes even people) release copious amount of methane in the form of flatulance.  One of the Norwegian coutries did a study on this not too long ago and claimed that this was a major source of the methane release into the atmosphere.  So, is the GW crowd going to start metering how much I release and tax me for it?

You will be able to get fart credits from Al Bore.

[avionix]

You will be able to get fart credits from Al Bore.

Yay!!!!!   An offset for a NATURAL occurance. 

[lazs2]

angus.. I doubt that your nets have seen the entire ocean floor.

lazs

[Angus]

Lazs,that is correct.
Lazs:
"Insert Quote
angus.. I doubt that your nets have seen the entire ocean floor"
That is correct. But they see more and more, and unveil more and more.
So what do you conclude when you scan an unknown seabed and find a volcano? Ohhh it must have been there since yesterday????????
"our" nets BTW run around a highly volcanically active area on the N-Atlantic rift. And the area is impressively large, added by the databases of both foreign ground as well as our neighbour countries. Norway, for one, is a very big fishing nation.
"our" ships also do their acts outside Canada, as well as in the Bering sea. All data from bottom/drag nets is recorded, and there is lots of stuff being discovered all the time.
Peaks are tagged (since they rip nets  if they are sharp, actually the net-rip areas are specially tagged), as well as crevasses, danger zones (i.e. the debris from WW2 naval engagement, - we were fishing close to HMS Hood for instance).
And most importantly, the best fishing catches are tagged, logged, registered, analyzed, calculated etc etc..
So, to get back on spot your volcanoes are not popping up from an explored seabed, it's the other way around, they are slowly being exposed by multible data from many sources, be it fishermen or scientists. Well, these were practically your words. Or do you have such a belief that anything you see for the first time is brand new?
Now, to methane and the famous cow farting theory.
1. The record breakers there are still the USA. Oh did I say "breakers" like in "ze breaking of ze vind "
2. Before blaming the cows for the whole deals we must remember 2 things, A & B...
A: This is a man- made business for man's food. Or do you think that burgers grow from trees?
B: Before clearing the ground for cows and other practical ruminants, the ground was loaded with wild ruminants, such as i.e. the N-American buffalos.....

In short, I'd be sceptic there, but the release of methane from moorland that has been canalized (for cheap animal food or pasture) is however stunning and well into embarresment....

[Baitman]

B: Before clearing the ground for cows and other practical ruminants, the ground was loaded with wild ruminants, such as i.e. the N-American buffalos.....

I agree but we now have agribusiness and intensive farming practises. Some farms out west here have many thousands of cows or hogs and they are raised from only a few hundred acres. This wouldn't of happened with the bison.