General Climate Discussion

[lazs2]

It's still just one little corner of the planet.. you need to get some perspective.   

lazs

[Holden McGroin]

My little corner includes the biggest glacial area in Europe, including the biggest glacier. The mount picture that Holden posted would probably not qualify properly as a glacier. Here we are working with sheer ice thickness that may be thousands of feet.

Give us a few years...  our glaciers will be bigger than your glaciers.

[Baitman]

Angus maybe Icelanders are causing all the ice to melt and should turn the heat off in their houses. Just kidding.

Our glaciers here in Western Canada are receding too. Much different than the early seventies when they were growing.

  Research icebreaker takes in winter in Beaufort Sea
Last Updated: Friday, December 14, 2007 | 4:27 PM CT
CBC News
The Canadian Coast Guard icebreaker Amundsen is spending this winter in the ice of the Beaufort Sea, giving scientists a unique chance to study the Arctic Ocean at this time of year.

The opportunity comes as a part of International Polar Year research efforts, which runs through this year and next. The icebreaker is currently located about 55 kilometres south of Sachs Harbour, N.W.T.

The Amundsen, a specially adapted coast guard vessel, serves as a "floating laboratory" for researchers conducting field work in Arctic waters.

Gary Stern, the chief scientist aboard the vessel, told CBC News that his research team is gathering samples of open water to test it for mercury and other contaminants.

Stern said the changing Arctic climate could lead to rising levels of contaminants in the water and in marine animals.

"What's happening is you're getting mercury coming from melting permafrost, or you're getting mercury from increasing forest fires associated with the warmer weather, increased erosion, things like that," Stern said Thursday.

"That mercury is making its way down the Mackenzie River and into the Beaufort Sea. So that mercury is now becoming bio-available."


It spent the winter in between the new ice and the old most of the time in open water.

[Angus]

That must be...the 15% ice cover????
And Lazs.....
"It's still just one little corner of the planet.. you need to get some perspective."

The little corner Iceland -Greenland with just the surrounding 200 miles of sea, frozen or thawn) holds more thermal energy than the whole atmosphere over the whole of the USA.
Not just more, MUCH more.
So get your own perspective....

[AKIron]

That must be...the 15% ice cover????
And Lazs.....
"It's still just one little corner of the planet.. you need to get some perspective."

The little corner Iceland -Greenland with just the surrounding 200 miles of sea, frozen or thawn) holds more thermal energy than the whole atmosphere over the whole of the USA.
Not just more, MUCH more.
So get your own perspective....

Heat = thermal energy. Cold = less thermal energy.

[Angus]

Thermal energy = mass x temp, be it lower or higher. So, in comparison with the atmosphere, cooling, yet much more energy since neither are so far apart in regard to 0 degs on Kelvin, so mass is the dominant factor....

[AKIron]

Thermal energy = mass x temp, be it lower or higher. So, in comparison with the atmosphere, cooling, yet much more energy since neither are so far apart in regard to 0 degs on Kelvin, so mass is the dominant factor....

I agree. However, how much of the math have you actually done? How far off shore do you include in determing the mass for a region? The US of A has some pretty deep oceans off our coasts with a lot of water (mass).

[Angus]

...And they're....cooling?
The USA has no sea -ice within 200 nautical miles....and just the Greenland Glacier stores enough Ice to raise the GLOBAL SL by 6 metres if it melts,- almost 20 feet. That is a mass not far from the entire mass of the atmosphere, thereby vastly more than the mass of all atmosphere over all land on the globe...of which the USA suddenly becomes....not the biggest. All America...not enough. Add all continents, and all atmosphere over them into space, go to 100.000 feet, and that chunky little corner neighbor of mine still has more mass, and that mass is leaving the party as fast as it gets...

[AKIron]

...And they're....cooling?
The USA has no sea -ice within 200 nautical miles....and just the Greenland Glacier stores enough Ice to raise the GLOBAL SL by 6 metres if it melts,- almost 20 feet. That is a mass not far from the entire mass of the atmosphere, thereby vastly more than the mass of all atmosphere over all land on the globe...of which the USA suddenly becomes....not the biggest. All America...not enough. Add all continents, and all atmosphere over them into space, go to 100.000 feet, and that chunky little corner neighbor of mine still has more mass, and that mass is leaving the party as fast as it gets...

Cooling? I was just rebutting your claim to more thermal energy.

[Angus]

You'd be surprized, but the coastlines of Iceland and Norway together match the one of ...Africa...
My little corner I refer to is Iceland and Greenland as well as the surrounding sea to 200 NM.
Butt that (Ice, Water and atmosphere) together into weight...even to the bottom of the sea....and you'll be surprized.
BTW, within our 200 NM we're already towing dragnets at 900 ftm....

[Holden McGroin]

...And they're....cooling?
The USA has no sea -ice within 200 nautical miles....

Psst...



http://climate.gi.alaska.edu/Wx/AKSeaIce_Alaska.gif

[Angus]

Me bad, forgetting Alaska and counting it with Canada   

[Angus]

BTW, I always pictured Alaska as further North. I've been fishing further North than the arctic circle, up to like 67 degs. It was normally Ice free....

[Holden McGroin]

If you were fishing out of Iceland, you were probably in the infleunce of the Gulf Stream.

No such current warms the Chukchi and Beaufort Seas.

[Angus]

We went where the branch of the Gulf stream meets the stream from the arctic. NW of the NW of the country, - to the NW there is the Icesheet at the Greenlandic coast.
The lot of the Ice has been retreating, before it was frequent that sailing around the country was impossible in winter, and the coast guard had to go steadily for exploration (airborne), - now the Ice is frequently so far away that it's nothing to worry about, if it is in range at all.
We did have to retreat once from the fishing grounds due to bad weather (we went up to 50 deg listing, which is not a condition where you want to be cutting fillets and stacking crates), and then the driftice made it unexciting, it's noisy (wham-bang against the hull) and not to nice on the nets.
This was in mid-January, the coldest and stormiest time basically.
BTW, as a point of interest, some have predicted that GW could lead to cooling in our area due to more frequent west winds that bring the Ice to our coast. The odds are now getting lower, since the quantity and age of it is declining. However if the Gulf stream would move, we'd go into permafrost in a whiff.
Some 30 years ago we started growing Barley, now it's starting with wheat and would be corn if the wind wasn't soo strong. So, the warming is being used in the business....