Author Topic: Gun Free Campus Protest  (Read 2675 times)

Offline Warhawk

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Gun Free Campus Protest
« Reply #135 on: October 29, 2007, 07:51:48 PM »
Have no problem with guns, what we should focus on is guns that are illegal and people that have them :(

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Gun Free Campus Protest
« Reply #136 on: October 29, 2007, 10:17:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chilli
I wish to make my last post here.  If you have anymore reasons why relaxing gun control should help make me feel safer or more manly.  Please, forward them to the fathers of the VT victims.  

In case you really missed the point of that link, the point was there are two sides to your arguement.  Nobody, including a father of one of Cho's victims, wants to take anything away from you.  What they want is for you to act responsibly and if you really want to make them safe keep your gun out of the hands of those who wish them harm.

Just don't pretend that a bunch of do good, armed college boys would have popped around the corner and put and end to the assault.  If everybody is carrying how do they know who the mass murderer is?   Oh, that's right, they were given a portable police radio with their CCW permits and Safety Patrol badge.

If you didn't read that far in the article, the gun control protesters were bringing attention to a "loophole" in Virginia gun control law that allowed for Cho to purchase a weapon used in that violent crime.


Chillie,

The only thing you are saying here is you are afraid of people with wheapons. Don't hide behind the fathers of the shooting victoms at VT. Your personal fear seems more the point of your posts. Many citizens in this country have fears like yours. Their response to that is to go through the CCW process. They have much more to loose than you do by making that much of a public effort to address their fear.

Is your fear great enough to vote against the god given right of all men to defend thier lives and family? Schools in most of the U.S. are open air lamb pens in wolf country with PETA members as gaurdians. Seems the definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over agian looking for a different outcome. Now that our schools are rape and murder smorgasbourgs....why do we/you insist on making it safer for the eaters than the members of the main meal?
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline wrag

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3499
Gun Free Campus Protest
« Reply #137 on: October 30, 2007, 04:58:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by crockett
Ahh so it's ok for you Conservatives to blab about what ever you want but no one else can have an opinion if it's different than yours?

Funny how the same guys that are always crying about their gun rights.. Are the same guys that tend to support things like the Patriot Act, wire taps, FCC regulations and so on.

Go figure I guess some of you never read the rest of the constitution or it's amendments. You better start marching on Washington because they let women and minorities vote now. Those damn evil liberals broke the Constitution again.


EXCUSE ME????????????????????

I did NOT want the Patriot Act enabled, or the wire taps, or the FCC regs.........



"Government never stops where you want it to. You don't get to write the laws or administer them. When you give the government the power to do what you want it to do, it will expand that power into areas where you don't want it to go." -

"The greater the power, the more dangerous the abuse." -- Edmund Burke,
political philosopher (1729-1797)

"You do not examine legislation in light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.”

"Dangerous laws created by well intentioned people today can be used by dangerous people with evil intentions tomorrow." - Alan Eppers

"We lost many of our rights when we asked government to control our neighbors for our benefit -- or simply looked the other way when others did so."

"What government can do to our neighbor, it can -- and will -- do to us. Freedom is something that we must give to others if we wish it for ourselves."



I am a firm believer in the right to keep and bear arms......



"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that the people preserve the spirit of resistance?" - Thomas Jefferson, 1787

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed- unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." - James Madison

As Thomas Paine once asked, —¦If a thief breaks into my house, burns and destroys my property, and kills or threatens to kill me, or those that are in it, and to 'bind me in all cases whatsoever' to his absolute will, am I to suffer it?" To say one must allow such destruction of one's life, liberty and property, and to not allow for the means to protect such rights, is to say that the individual does not hold these natural rights, and that whoever holds the power shall decide what "rights" will be granted. Such an idea is preposterous.

"The generality of men are naturally apt to be swayed by fear rather than reverence, and to refrain from evil rather because of the punishment that it brings than because of its own foulness."
Aristotle (384-322 bc)
Greek philosopher


As to a political leaning, I'm not a Dem, nor a Rep, the closest any political party that comes to my views would be the Libertarians.

I've read several of your post so far and find IMHO I must agree with the statement made earlier that much of what you have posted SEEMS to be the flip side..............
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline wrag

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3499
Gun Free Campus Protest
« Reply #138 on: October 30, 2007, 05:11:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by cpxxx
I don't suppose it occured to anyone to compromise. Allow people who have CCW permits to bring weapons to school if they inform the school authorities.

This has a double advantage in that there is anyone thinking of going on a killing spree has to consider the fact that there will be people there to fire back at him and giving peace of mind to other students that there are people who would be in a position to defend them. It probably won't stop the psycho but it might make him more careful leading to less deaths.

Why does it always have to be a confrontation? People are nervous about guns in colleges for very obvious reasons. Given that isn't it insensitive of gun enthusiasts to maintain that their right to bear arms overrides any reasonable or unreasonable fears of the majority. With all rights goes responsibility.

The concept of reasonable compromise to everyones benefit really needs to be explored.


Whenever anyone makes a compromise on anything that is THEIRS, they have just given up that which is THEIRS.  It is GONE.

The left is always saying compromise when it really means GIVE IT UP.  SADLY that is their TRUE GOAL.  CHIP, CHIP, CHIP, take things away a little at a time and APPEAR to be doing it in a REASONABLE fashion.  Or for the children. Or etc. etc. etc.  But they always have a REASONABLE (to them and SEEMINGLY so to others) argument.

How can I say this?  Simple, I've watched the politicians for over 50 years and that is whats been going on.

They aren't actually interested in REASONABLE COMPROMISE!  To them there is NO SUCH concept.  It is just some words they're using to get what they want.
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline wrag

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3499
Gun Free Campus Protest
« Reply #139 on: October 30, 2007, 05:40:40 AM »
"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow... For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." —Jeff Snyder


"The defense of one's self, justly called the primary law of nature, is not, nor can it be abrogated by any regulation of municipal law." - James Wilson, The Works of James Wilson, 1896
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Gun Free Campus Protest
« Reply #140 on: October 30, 2007, 08:19:00 AM »
chili.. the others have answered you quite well but I will add...  many school shootings were stopped exactly in the way you describe it could not be done...In an almost identical case in another technical school.. a whacked out gunman was stopped by a "college kid" with a gun.   in fully one third of all school shootings a civilian stops the fight.

This would be higher if more teachers (when the children are young) and students (when they are of age) had permits to carry.

for those of you who worry...  the fact is that it is unfounded.  CCW holders simply don't cause problems.. they have prevented and even killed criminals but are rarely if ever criminals and have never killed in an unjustified manner.   we are talking tens of thousands of holders now.  

Not only that but.. at the most.. only ten percent of the population would have the guts and the sense of duty to carry..  it would not be everyone.

In the end tho...  I should never have to suffer the whim of criminals because I can't defend myself.. I should never have to hide under the bed like the brits while my house is being ransacked.    I should never have to chose between watching a rape or mugging and being killed in an unarmed attempt to stop it.

Yes... perhaps it does have something to do with "manliness"  something that maybe chili has forgotten or.. that he maybe doesn't see as a problem.  but men... real moral men.. do not let themselves or others be tyranized.

lazs

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Gun Free Campus Protest
« Reply #141 on: October 30, 2007, 08:26:52 AM »
reading my post.. I may have been to harsh on good people who simply aren't thinking things through or haven't really gotten good info.

I do realize that youth tends to feel invincible... that some of you are young and feel that you don't need a firearm to defend yourself.. that you can "take care of yourself"

Of that I believe you are correct to an extent.. criminals will avoid the young and strong to prey on the old and the weak and women.

I have no doubt that some of you would be very brave in a school shooting situation.. many teachers were.. they died shielding kids...  

I have no doubt some of you would die bravely too..   I just ask that you think of your older relatives and friends and mothers and sisters living alone or... home alone or on the road.   even if they choose to not have a gun.. would you not like to know a responsible person with one would step up to help them?

That is what it is all about.   don't look at your neighbors as the enemy.. they are not... the criminal is the enemy.. they sociopath..  he will always be armed.. Don't look to the police or the government to protect you from him...they can't.. they never do...  you need to look to yourself and your neighbors.

In the end.. it always occurs to me that I have an optomistic view of people and those who would disarm us have a fear and distrust of their own neighbors and friends.

lazs

Offline lasersailor184

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8938
Gun Free Campus Protest
« Reply #142 on: October 30, 2007, 08:52:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chilli
I wish to make my last post here.  If you have anymore reasons why relaxing gun control should help make me feel safer or more manly.  Please, forward them to the fathers of the VT victims.  

In case you really missed the point of that link, the point was there are two sides to your arguement.  Nobody, including a father of one of Cho's victims, wants to take anything away from you.  What they want is for you to act responsibly and if you really want to make them safe keep your gun out of the hands of those who wish them harm.

Just don't pretend that a bunch of do good, armed college boys would have popped around the corner and put and end to the assault.  If everybody is carrying how do they know who the mass murderer is?   Oh, that's right, they were given a portable police radio with their CCW permits and Safety Patrol badge.

If you didn't read that far in the article, the gun control protesters were bringing attention to a "loophole" in Virginia gun control law that allowed for Cho to purchase a weapon used in that violent crime.


First off is that loophole isn't really a loophole, but a basic right.  It says that anyone can sell anything they own to anyone else.  You call that a loophole.  In the real world, it is called:

PRIVATE ****ING PROPERTY.

The government has NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to tell two citizens what they can or cannot sell to each other.


Besides your David Blaine act to try to convince us otherwise, Cho did NOT purchase his guns through this means.  He bought two guns a month apart in a gun shop.  Neither time did the background check bring up that he was institutionalized.  This, in itself has been since corrected.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Gun Free Campus Protest
« Reply #143 on: October 30, 2007, 09:15:26 AM »
yep.. insane people should not be allowed to buy guns.   children should not be allowed to buy guns.. people while in prison should not have rights or guns.

see? simple gun control stuff.. just like the constitution intended.

lazs

Offline BiGBMAW

  • Parolee
  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 326
Gun Free Campus Protest
« Reply #144 on: October 30, 2007, 09:33:33 AM »
Yes..I believe you do now know what an assault rifle is.

Offline wrag

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3499
Gun Free Campus Protest
« Reply #145 on: October 30, 2007, 12:58:34 PM »
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline Yeager

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10167
Gun Free Campus Protest
« Reply #146 on: October 30, 2007, 04:20:23 PM »
In Florida alone they found something like 1,400 people whom were approved for CCW's but had committed federal crimes in the past.
====
Sounds like Florida has some serious problems.  My state requires an FBI background check.   The cost of the background check is part of the license fee.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline john9001

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9453
Gun Free Campus Protest
« Reply #147 on: October 30, 2007, 04:25:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
In Florida alone they found something like 1,400 people whom were approved for CCW's but had committed federal crimes in the past.
====
Sounds like Florida has some serious problems.  My state requires an FBI background check.


florida requires a background check by the state and then by the federal government, they did not tell me what branch of the fed govt that checked me.

but i passed.

BTW, that's 1400 out of about 250,000. and you might want to tell us exactly what "federal crimes" they committed.

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Gun Free Campus Protest
« Reply #148 on: October 31, 2007, 08:50:19 AM »
yeager.. do you have a link?   how many of these "criminals" have abused their right to carry?   what were their "crimes".    If your wife... or even girlfriend... says you hit her..  never mind if you did or not..  you can't have a firearm...  what the hell is up with that?

I would like to see the link and list of 1400 and the crimes they committed and... the crimes they have committed with firearms since they got ccw's

As I said.. I think that any person not in jail and not insane and not a child should be allowed to bear arms.. I don't care if he robbed people at gunpoint before.   If he is free...  he should.

Also... how many criminals are carrying that never even bothered to try to get a permit?

lazs

Offline BiGBMAW

  • Parolee
  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 326
Gun Free Campus Protest
« Reply #149 on: October 31, 2007, 10:16:23 AM »
oops...I messed up

Crok et   I believe You DO NOT know what an assault rifle is