Author Topic: Gun Free Campus Protest  (Read 2665 times)

Offline crockett

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« Reply #90 on: October 27, 2007, 11:03:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
nice dodge crock-it.. of course school shootings are rare..   you would not think so tho by the coverage they get from your lefty media.  They don't mention however that fully a third are stopped eventually by a citizen with a gun... more guns.. more stopping of shooters.

You said that criminals don't care... you are again.. of course.. wrong.  Interviews with hardened criminals prove every time that they fear citizens with guns more than even cops.

But..it is not just anecdotal.. it is real cause and effect.   Very few burglaries are done in America "hot" like in your socialist paradise your-0p.  

the other point you make is not well thought out either...those who would kill will kill even if they get what they want.   they will also have the drop on people.. the real facts tho are that law abiding gun owners don't kill.. not in the vast majority of cases.. the real truth is that according to FBI stats... people with firearms stop between 1.5 and 3 million crimes a year.   They don't kill or even wound but they prevent those things from happening.

Do us all a favor and get educated on the subject so we don't have to do all the work.

Please read "more guns less crime" it is very detailed and heavily footnoted and among the thousands of facts in it.. so far only one or two very minor ones have been found to be in error... an economist wrote it so it is anal.

If that is too much to read... (lots of facts and footnotes) then read "the seven deadly myths about gun control"   this is a shorter more lively version with less hardcore data but speaks to every left wing myth about guns and gun control.

lazs


Funny Fox News always seems to be one of the most "dramatic" about covering these kinds of things. When did they join the lefties? I must have missed that.

Books are nice, but we all know books can be twisted to fit their own agenda. I have no clue who the authors are or what their stand on the subject is. However I don't need a book to know that something is wrong in this county.

When death by gun is the 8th leading cause of death in this country, I think it's pretty clear that easier access to Hand Guns and putting legal guns in the hands of criminals are not really the answers. (remember you suggested criminals should have guns)

Lets not forget it's 85 people on average each day whom "die" from guns. However it's three times that many each day whom are shot and wounded. Call it bleeding heart or what ever else you can think of, but facts are facts.

So that's 340 people each day whom lives are changed by the barrel of a gun. Sorry something tells me that the easy access to guns we have, isn't working very well.

Over half the shootings are done committing a crime. Was roughly 52% of them. The other half was mostly suicides and about 3% were accidental shootings.
"strafing"

Offline crockett

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« Reply #91 on: October 27, 2007, 11:35:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
South Africa isn't the USA, wild west isn't today, .  Apples to apples Crockett..
The USA's history is bloody, but what country's history isn't?  What country has striven for everything the USA stands (or is meant to anyway) for without some bloody conflict at some point?

Amuse everyone else Crockett, what is your better alternative to the second amendment?
There's more wrong with the man than with the guns in just about everything you denounce.

Red Herring, dark side of the moon, non sequitur.. take your pick:

Just bleeding heart maybe?  In that case you're adding your share to the complications, creating problems where there are none.


I'm not for a bunch of extra laws but I do think hand guns should be tracked. If you want to go to K-Mart and buy a hunting rifle be my guest I have nothing against that.

Rifles and shotguns are not so easily concealed so they pose less of a threat in public. (assuming it's not a short tactical style shot gun).

Hand Guns are the problem, they are cheap, easy to get and easy to hide. We already have a law on the books which apparently isn't unconstitutional as it's held up for quite some time. You already have to have a federal firearms license  to buy a full automatic gun.

I think the same kind of rule should be put in place for hand guns, but of course be a little easier to get. I simply think all HG's should be titled just like a car is.. Each sale should be tracked. Each HG at time of manufacture should have a ballistic test on file.

If you want to buy a HG then you should have to have a license for it. Just like you have to pass a test to drive a car, you should also have to pass a gun safety test to be able to carry a hand gun.

Would this solve every gun crime.. No it sure wouldn't, but it would go a long way towards making it harder for criminals to get legal HG's. If they get caught with a unregistered HG or without a HG license then it should be a mandatory sentence just like getting caught driving drunk.

I'm not against law abiding citizens owning guns, as I said I own guns myself. However it's time people face the facts that guns are deadly and require responsibility in ownership. It's time gun owners are made to be responsible.

In short I think a CCW is pretty dumb. The reason I say that is because any HG is easily concealable, regardless if you have a licence to conceal it or not.

So I say why not treat all HG's as a concealed weapon and extend the CCW to "all" HG ownership. So yes maybe you give up a little on the ease of buying a HG, however once you legally obtain your license you are free to carry it, assuming it's not at a "gun free zone" :D.

Now sure as I said, it doesn't do away with gun crimes, however it does make it much harder for criminal to get legal guns. If they get caught then the legal system has another tool to work with to maybe prevent a crime.

If a crime takes place, well it's going to be easier for police to track the gun used in that crime, because of the ballistic tests that are on file and the gun transfer records. In the end the people whom are carrying legal HG's would at the very least have proven themselves competent enough to have passed a gun training and safety class.

You guys think just because I appose your thoughts on guns that it somehow makes me against guns. That's far from the truth. I'm for the right to own guns, but I think owning that gun requires responsibility and I think we should be doing everything we can to keep the guns out of the hands of the wrong people.

So in short I'm not a anti gun nut.. I'm a nut whom believes in responsible gun ownership.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 11:41:48 AM by crockett »
"strafing"

Offline Chilli

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« Reply #92 on: October 27, 2007, 12:29:54 PM »
:eek:

Let's take a moment and pause for the victims of gun violence.



Okay, now......  

I have grown up around guns all my life.  Deer hunting in my home town, not only is necessary to reduce the population (probably near all time high), but also supplements the local meat consumption for many residents (some work in the seasonal seafood industry).

I agree that every man has the right to protect his home against violent criminal action.  I believe those who are able to obtain permits, bear the responsibilty to act accordingly.  The  fact is, that weapons are left unsecured, owners brandish firearms in instances to intimidate or protect property, not life or limb, and too often, used to settle domestic troubles.

Sorry, but I don't believe in arming the masses and let them police themselves.  Strict gun laws should put guns in the hands of those ready to accept that responsibilty and taken away from those who cannot.  

I absolutely do not want my daughter with a college roomate w/ gun under her pillow firing off rounds at her trying not to wake her after a late night study session.  Besides, how many people at VT would have been mistaken about who the bad guy was.  

This guy had some real problems and a firearm and cryptic video tape speaking for him.  A whole police force with firearms wasn't able do what you suggest lax gun control would.  It is just not that simple - - wake up and smell the gunpowder.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #93 on: October 27, 2007, 12:41:19 PM »
explain "responsible gun ownership" for me please.

All the drama does not obscure the facts... only about 10% of the population would arm themselves concealed no matter what.. the facts are that 1.5 to 3 million crimes a year are prevented... innocent people protected by firearms in this country.

The fact is that no gun law has ever reduced crime..  yep..not one.   But... the more guns the less crime.

The fact is that suicide does not require guns nor does murder..

The fact is that if the school shooters had used bombs or fire they would have killed more.

The fact is that the homicide rates that are the highest are in countries with strict gun control.. some of the lowest rates are in countries with lax gun control.

The fact is that more than half of the gun crimes in this country are committed by one small minority.

chili... I find your attitude even more disgusting than even crok-its or beetles...  your idea is that guns are fine in your hands but you reserve the right to restrict your fellows...  that only you can be trusted with the second amendment rights given all men.

And.. the fact is.. you don't have the right to disarm me.  You may have the might someday.. but you don't have the right.

lazs

Offline crockett

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« Reply #94 on: October 27, 2007, 12:46:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
explain "responsible gun ownership" for me please.

All the drama does not obscure the facts... only about 10% of the population would arm themselves concealed no matter what.. the facts are that 1.5 to 3 million crimes a year are prevented... innocent people protected by firearms in this country.

The fact is that no gun law has ever reduced crime..  yep..not one.   But... the more guns the less crime.

The fact is that suicide does not require guns nor does murder..

The fact is that if the school shooters had used bombs or fire they would have killed more.

The fact is that the homicide rates that are the highest are in countries with strict gun control.. some of the lowest rates are in countries with lax gun control.

The fact is that more than half of the gun crimes in this country are committed by one small minority.

chili... I find your attitude even more disgusting than even crok-its or beetles...  your idea is that guns are fine in your hands but you reserve the right to restrict your fellows...  that only you can be trusted with the second amendment rights given all men.

And.. the fact is.. you don't have the right to disarm me.  You may have the might someday.. but you don't have the right.

lazs


I'd really love to know where you get your "more guns = less crime stats".

Is that from the NRA handbook?

The highest homicide rates occur in big cities.. Big cites tend to have big populations and tend to have more gun control than say hicks ville Alabama.. as we said before Apples and Oranges..

Larz you also seem to be pointing to the races issue over and over in several posts I've seen. You seem to be trying to insuniate that certain people are better than others. While I don't want to call you a racist but I think it is starting to become pretty clear.

Since you seem to be so big on the mass shootings subject, maybe you should know that most mass shootings are carried out by white males.

Suicide isn't a reason for gun control, nor did I give it as a reason. I simply stated the facts on the stats.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 12:57:35 PM by crockett »
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Offline Bronk

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« Reply #95 on: October 27, 2007, 12:50:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by crockett
I'd really love to know where you get your "more guns = less crime stats".

Is that from the NRA handbook?

 
Scenario
Ok your a thief. Where do you want to set up shop?
A. Place where nobody has  guns.
B. Place where a % of the population carries.

Be honest.
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Offline crockett

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« Reply #96 on: October 27, 2007, 12:59:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
Scenario
Ok your a thief. Where do you want to set up shop?
A. Place where nobody has  guns.
B. Place where a % of the population carries.

Be honest.


How many thieves rob colleges? They going to steal school books?
"strafing"

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #97 on: October 27, 2007, 01:03:14 PM »
read the book.. look at crime rates for places where they passed lax concealed carry laws.

as for murder rates per 100,000...  bettle/ocean is lying to you...

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

as you can see.. the US is number 24 on the list behind such countries as mexico with very strict gun laws..  

really..you need to research.. I don't care what books you read but "more guns less crime" is heavily footnoted.. you can check the footnotes..  I don't know how you get better info than that... why do you think your opinion is based on fact but books are worthless?  where do you get your info?

I have linked you to nation master.. hardly right wing.

also, as for the NRA.. why would that be a bad source of info?  it has been shown to be consitently correct while such left wing sources as the brady bunch have been shown to be shameless in their lying.

Where do you get your information?

lazs

Offline Bronk

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« Reply #98 on: October 27, 2007, 01:03:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by crockett
How many thieves rob colleges? They going to steal school books?

Did you take tap lessons as a kid?
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Offline Trell

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« Reply #99 on: October 27, 2007, 01:04:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
Scenario
Ok your a thief. Where do you want to set up shop?
A. Place where nobody has  guns.
B. Place where a % of the population carries.

Be honest.


C. The place that is easy to steal from.

Other then gypsies I doubt most thieves  move around to the places with the strictest gun control.

Offline Bronk

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« Reply #100 on: October 27, 2007, 01:08:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Trell
C. The place that is easy to steal from.

Other then gypsies I doubt most thieves  move around to the places with the strictest gun control.

Yup can't even be honest with yourself ehh.
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Offline john9001

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« Reply #101 on: October 27, 2007, 01:09:33 PM »
So in short crockett is not a anti gun nut, he just wants "reasonable" gun laws.

like in pre nazi germany , to prevent crime it was reasonable to have all german citizens register their guns. So when the nazis took over they had all the gun lists and just went around and collected the guns.

Offline Trell

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« Reply #102 on: October 27, 2007, 01:14:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
Yup can't even be honest with yourself ehh.


Ohh so all these thieves move around the country to the states with the strictest gun controls???

Most thieves I think live and die within the same state they grew up in.

Offline Bronk

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« Reply #103 on: October 27, 2007, 01:24:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Trell
Ohh so all these thieves move around the country to the states with the strictest gun controls???

Most thieves I think live and die within the same state they grew up in.

Believe what you want. But if I were a were a thief. I'd be more inclined to go where my targets have least chance to defend themselves.

Once again you're free to believe as you wish.
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Offline Trell

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« Reply #104 on: October 27, 2007, 01:34:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
Believe what you want. But if I were a were a thief. I'd be more inclined to go where my targets have least chance to defend themselves.

Once again you're free to believe as you wish.


We will have to agree to disagree.
If thieves were smart they would not be thieves.