Music Piracy

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Nilsen
RIAA has no authority over here. Norwegian law states that you can copy any music or movies you have purchased for your own personal use.

The law is the same here in the States.  You are allowed to make one back up copy of any copyrighted material you purchase.  So if you buy a book, you can legally make a copy of it, same with a video game and music.


ack-ack

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Yanno what amuses me. Is the amount of radio stations that download songs "of various quality"

I can honestly say that while I've downloaded music. I've downloaded very few songs I havent already owned.
and the ones I didnt own that I've downloaded are typically old and obscure songs you just cant find anywhere for sale.

But I've found the same thing.
Download one song and maybe the drums might be missing.
Another song and something else is eithe missing or partially drowned out.


to get back to my original statement I can site one example.
A few years ago I heard a radio station playing the song " Eight Days A Week" by The Beatles.
You could hear the insumentals fine. But the voices were barely legible.
The funny thing was I had downladed the same song a week earlier and had the same exact thing. I had to try 4 diferent times before I was able to get a decent version.

Its funny cause I could have told you at the time exactly whom they downloaded it from.

By and large As I have said I've only downloaded songs I have already paid for.
Its just easier to DL 3-4 songs at a time then it is to go through my entire collection to pick out one or two songs off each.

Anything I want I pretty much already have and I havent DL'ed any in a long while.

You're talking about mistakes in the mastering process, not compression. You listened a record that was ripped from the same master that the radio station played through original lp/cd. Compression will never selectively rip off drums or vocals.. shoddy mastering can and will. So, imagine if you bought this cd for $25 and got the badly mastered version, full price, no refund.

This is what music business is.

[sluggish]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
You're talking about mistakes in the mastering process, not compression. You listened a record that was ripped from the same master that the radio station played through original lp/cd. Compression will never selectively rip off drums or vocals.. shoddy mastering can and will. So, imagine if you bought this cd for $25 and got the badly mastered version, full price, no refund.

This is what music business is.

Until the album "Help!", the Beatles were recorded with a two track machine.  They recorded the guitars and drums  on one track and the vocals on the other.  These were mixed and presented in mono.  When these early albums were first rereleased mono was totally dead and the only way to get a stereo image from the original masters was to put one track in one channel and the other in the other.  This is why you could effectively "turn off" the vocals just by playing with the balance control on your stereo.

When the Beatle albums were first released on CD they were represented as their original British release with the British track listing and in mono (if the original release was in mono).  About two or three years ago, EMI, trying to squeeze every last dime out of the Beatles, released the American albums in their track order and in stereo.  This is the only way a bad rip of "Eight Days a Week" could be found.

[LEADPIG]

I don't have a problem with people trading my music. I do have a problem with people dowloading my whole record and not paying for it. I couple songs here and there is cool, to get a taste. Paying 50 cents for individual songs is fine too. Because look the record companie big wigs charge too much as it is. From the musicians side of it, i don't care, music is something i'd do if none gave a crap anyway. The real payment to me would be to bring a little joy to people. I'd like a enough too make a nice living at it. Writing songs and making music is not that hard for me too justify millions of dollars for something i do naturally. The record companies do that.

Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails said something recently at a concert that sums it up. He said basically go ahead steal it, put my slavemaster bosses out of work so i can do music for the real reason i do it, something like that.
He was in Sweden or something and asked the crowd if the prices for cd's went down, to which he said that. .... Cool guy.

As a matter of fact i have the link right here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ5iHaV0dP4&mode=related&search=Trent%20Reznor%20Nine%20Inch%20Nails%20interview%20MTV%20Video%20Awards

[JB73]

glad to hear you feel that way LEADPIG.

it is a fine a complex line sadly, and I can't say where it ends. I do think  Radiohead's new album and the way they dealt with the release is going to turn some heads. I also think it may be the beginning in a fundamental shift in the music industry (I can hope )

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by sluggish
Until the album "Help!", the Beatles were recorded with a two track machine.  They recorded the guitars and drums  on one track and the vocals on the other.  These were mixed and presented in mono.  When these early albums were first rereleased mono was totally dead and the only way to get a stereo image from the original masters was to put one track in one channel and the other in the other.  This is why you could effectively "turn off" the vocals just by playing with the balance control on your stereo.

When the Beatle albums were first released on CD they were represented as their original British release with the British track listing and in mono (if the original release was in mono).  About two or three years ago, EMI, trying to squeeze every last dime out of the Beatles, released the American albums in their track order and in stereo.  This is the only way a bad rip of "Eight Days a Week" could be found.

Actually the vocals were there but just BARELY legible.
You could hear the music fine. but the vocals sounded muffled.

but thats just one example.
I head rado stations play music like this all the time with different artists. Not just the Beatles.

I've also run across the same thing Downloading songs of various artists

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by JB73



Some here have mentioned downloading music because they don't want to pay $15 for a CD when they only like 2 songs. I completely agree with this, in fact it is one of my biggest complaints. Considering the cost to make a CD is less than 25¢ it is insulting to make the consumer pay $15. There was an article I remember that quoted the RIAA back years ago when CD's first came out. They promised the consumers the cost of CD's would be down below $10 in a year or two, and go even lower after that because the how cheap they were to make compared to albums and cassette tapes. Has that ever even come close to happening?

If the record companies weren't so greedy I'd be more interested in buying entire albums. As it stands the money they charge an artist for "recording time" "advertising" "distribution" and other bloated charges are just insane.
.

You make a real good point. Look at the movie industry.
Remember when VCR movies cost a fortune.
I used to tape off of HBO (back when they actually showed more then 2 newer movies per month) all the time.

Now they are so cheap I dont even bother renting anymore. I just buy them outright

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by GtoRA2
I hope you do not extend that line of "reasoning" to your neighbors, but I dont't trust you not to.

If my neighbours tried to rip me off to support their drug habits I might consider it.

Nilsen, give it time, the RIAA have made their weight felt in NZ. Their going to allow you to format shift music but leave the ability for the copyright owner to 'contract out', ie all they have to do is slap a T&C on the cover saying "No copying/format shifting" and we're screwed.

GtoRA2, look at R5 DVD's. They're released quickly (sometimes before the movies hit the big screen in NZ), the quality is good, and they're cheap. Sure theres no wanking 'extras', but who cares about those? Its proof that piracy works to give the consumer a competitive stick to beat the industry over the head with. It is also proof that the industry CAN do the things it said it could not (such as cheaper DVD prices and earlier releases).

Unfortunately for the music and movie industry they've created a pavlov's dog outta me and many other consumers. I got so fed up waiting for what they should've done many years ago that piracy is a learned habit for many of us.

[Hap]

My guess is theiving has been legitimized in this thread.

That about right?

[bizz]

Originally posted by JB73
glad to hear you feel that way LEADPIG.

it is a fine a complex line sadly, and I can't say where it ends. I do think  Radiohead's new album and the way they dealt with the release is going to turn some heads. I also think it may be the beginning in a fundamental shift in the music industry (I can hope )

What Radiohead is doing is wonderful, but I think it will only change things if the other megabands follow suit, and thats a big if. The Industry is sooooo screwed up right now it is going to take a major shake up for the labels to get there heads out of their rear ends. The more bigtime bands that give their label the finger the better.

The sad thing is that an up and coming band really needs a label. It is very difficult to get your songs on the radio nation wide with out a lot of major label support.  And forget about MTV, VHI or Fuse, with out bigtime label support getting your videos on those stations is impossible. I'm hoping that if a lot of different megastars start bailing on their record contracts it will force the major labels to start developing acts like they used to. The optimist in me wants to belive that its possible, my own experience in the biz makes me think it will be difficult because of the way the media in this country is set up.

Back in the late 90's I was in a band that got signed to a major label and it was an eye opening experience. Because big time corprate media giants like Clear Channel  own about 95% of the radio stations a label needs to spend a ton of money on promotion and "payola" An A&R guy needs to not only get the label behind the band he is working with but also Clear Channel. Thats why a lot of the stuff you hear on the radio sounds the same. The labels are in it to make money, so they tend to push acts that they know will sell.

The other bands like the one I was in get left in the dust. In fact TVT, the label we where on put almost no money into us at all. We didn't even record the damn thing a second time. They just took the CD we tracked at our own studio remixed it, slapped some new artwork on it and put it in the stores. Then wouldn't give us an support for touring or promotion aside form a couple of movie and video game soundtracks. My guess is with the small amount of money they threw us when they signed us, and the little bit of money they got for the soundtracks they might of hit the break even point.

We signed a one album deal, big mistake on our part. When it came time to try and get a second album out they used the old "you didn't sell like we hoped you would" excuse, and we where out a label. I guess the 8 week tour was more then enough time to build a nation wide following:rolleyes: I am willing to bet that there are about a million bands out there that made some great music with a story like ours that never got a chance. Its a big freaking mess:furious

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Hap
My guess is theiving has been legitimized in this thread.

That about right?

rationalized would be a better term

[LEADPIG]

Originally posted by bizz


We signed a one album deal, big mistake on our part. When it came time to try and get a second album out they used the old "you didn't sell like we hoped you would" excuse, and we where out a label. I guess the 8 week tour was more then enough time to build a nation wide following:rolleyes: I am willing to bet that there are about a million bands out there that made some great music with a story like ours that never got a chance. Its a big freaking mess:furious

I bet the bands that they promoted were clones of the current flavor of the week, that you'll never hear about. You guys were probably different (good thing) so they didn't want to deal with you.

Iv'e heard bad things from TVT records as well, Trent Reznor grew to hate there guts. Sounds like he was right.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Hap
My guess is theiving has been legitimized in this thread.

That about right?

Yes but only if they are theiving from you


Im not so sure anyone is legitimising it as much as pointing out that the record companies through their shortsighted greed are in large part creators of their own problem.
As I have stated before. I remember when movies were expencive $40 +

now they are so cheap I dont bother renting or recording off TV.
I just buy them outright.
I dont have to worry about late fees, the little HBO,showtime Cinemax etc logo that pops up on the screen. And most of all unless I get a bad DVD I dont have to worry about the the quality of the recording.
Charge less and they can make buying the stuff more worthwhile, then downloading it.

Classic case where by charging less you can make more.


but if you want to put it in the terms Im sure you are thinking of.

Well lets face it. These companies arent exactly nice people either.
Most of them wouldnt think twice about ripping off some unknowns material and giving it to one of their name bands to use either.
They'd cut your or my throat in a New York minute if they thought they could get away with it and turn a profit off of it.

think not? Just look at HTC and all the fun they've had with a party that shall go nameless. in the last few years.

So while I might not condone this "theivery. Or "stealing" music
My heart doesnt exactly pump purple pi$$ for these companies either.
They aint exactly Mother Theresas themselves

Sometimes what goes around comes around.

But relax. Im sure this thread wont be around long.
these threads rarely are.

Im actually kinda surprised its been here this long

[LEADPIG]

I'm glad the thread is here, i do love a heated discussion

[JB73]

speaking of all this here's a perfect example:

Anyone seen the movie "Solaris" ?

the soundtrack has 1 or 2 ambient tracks I love, or at least while watching the movie I said to myself "I really like this background music"

There's no way I am going to pay $15 or more for the CD when all I am interested in is a song or 2. Also I'd like to look up the composer and see what else he has done. If he has other tracks similar I'd be interested in a compilation CD.


Thats a prime example of where I'd look to DL a track or 2, and look to DL other tracks by said composer. I won't even bother with itunes since if I do get the song al I can do is play it on my PC with apple's software. that is crap.


Sorry to go off on a tangent but if I pay money for a song I want to be able to do with it whatever I can legally do. play it on multiple sources, make copies for use in multiple locations in my household, whatever. they say "ohh you are copying it to someone else" or whatever. I say I refuse to use their product because it is a total SCAM.

well thats my thought on itunes lol sorry for the off tangent reply.