On ethics – The HO, The RAM, The SPY – an informal poll.

[pluck]

LOL, levi you noob.

This has turned into a very entertaining thread.

I also shoot chutes, or meat bombs if you prefer.  Obviously I am a person of low moral standing, faulty ethics.  I'm sure at some point the virtual police are going to knock down my virtual door and place me under arrest for pixel assination.  Of course, HTC, would also have to go down because after all they are responsible for allowing me to shoot them.  They gave me bulltets, a plane, and coded it.  Then again, maybe in this virtual world, HT is god and he is just testing me so that the next time my pixels are blown up, instead of getting a new plane, I'll go straight to pixel hell....which would mean I'm getting a life time subscription to WoW running around with a magic elf.....ya, you know.

After blowing up a meat bomb, I take some gratification knowing that without my efforts, AH would not be as intense.  Just think how boring it would be, If all the point dweebs were able to bail out safely every time with 0 risk, no worry of enemy.  I supply bailers with the thought of sheer terror evertime they see my guns firing on their chute, enhancing their gameplay.

[Karnak]

Intentional ramming is very rare.  Usually all that will happen is the guy who tries to ram sets himself up as an easy guns kill.  This is true probably 99% of the time.

Therefore your ramming poll is so leading as to be bull****.

[Arlo]

AH "ethics" threads are always good for a laugh. Right next to "chesspiece traitors" and "HTC is a tyrant" ones. I wish I could give kudos for baiting the masses but, unfortunately, this one comes off a bit too genuine ... and disconnected from what Aces High is - which is a game that doesn't enforce the artificial ethics some of it's players invent or imagine. Anything HTC thinks is wrong is dealt with immediately and harshly. If it doesn't show on their radar then the noise is nothing but sweet music to the ears of the initiated.

Even those who haven't flown a tour in ages, toonce.

[SuperDud]

Originally posted by toonces3
Am I missing something here?

Leviathn did not fly in tours:
93 (LW)
92
91
90
89
88
87
86
85
84
83

tour 82 I started finding some stats- not many sorties, but lethal ones.
no bails in the 3 or so I went back.

I did make another mistake.  I got mixed up, I thought it was Attack/Veh.  not Veh/Boat.

The only thing I wanted to verify was if he 'never bailed' which it appears is true.  Why?  Because most of the times the folks that say that they don't care about score or whatever still ditch or bail.  I wanted to actually find someone that doesn't just talk the talk, but walks the walk.

Leviathn is the real deal.

I saw a fighter score, don't remember which tour but probably in the 60's or 70's, where he had a 46:1 K/D in fighters.  That's pretty freaking lethal man.

That's all I was saying.  I admited I was wrong about him not flying (should have qualified that with 'not recently' but such is life), I just didn't go back far enough.

I'm pretty sure Leviathn can defend himself, even though I wasn't attacking him.  No need for the gallery to chime in.



On the original topic:
Yes, this is just a game.  But it's an online game against other people.  I find it hard to separate the attitude that, because it's a game on the internet, it's 'different' from playing a game against an opponent in person.  

In the same way that I wouldn't cheat or abuse another player in an 'in-person' game, I wouldn't do it here either.

A person doesn't check their character at the door when they come online to AH2.  But if telling yourself that 'well, it's just a game' makes you feel better about how you behave, nothing I'm going to say is going to change your mind.

I look forward to seeing y'all in the online skies.

Toonces

Naw toonces I was commenting on your vehcle thing. Lev rarley climbs into 1. As for fighters, he is one of the most lethal pile-its ever known in the game. You are correct he hasn't played recently. He busy pretending he's an elf princess in WoW.

As for having troubles believing some can seperate this from real life competition you don't know the BKs as well as some others well enough then. This game to me is therapy. You can do/act however you want w/o the consiquinces of real life. So have fun, it's a game. Nothing is lost or harmed except virtual pride.

[toonces3]

You know I gave this alot of thought.

I have alot on my plate in real life.  Unlike Leviathn, or the rest of y'all, this is my first foray into online gaming.  I'm not young (36), but I'm just not the kind of person that's normally into this sort of thing.  You'd think after flight simming for about 20+ years I'd have ventured into online flight sims at some point.

At any rate, not that you would know this, but in my 'real' life I'm a fairly intense, serious person.  I tend to approach most things I do in the same manner I approach life.

Having said all that, in looking at how I've posted, I sound totally ate up.  It's hard, being serious all the time, and then NOT being serious online.  

There have been only a few times that I've found myself getting wound up in this game.  In most cases I've successfully been able to laugh at myself.

I'm going to take this opportunity to do that now.  I'm such a N00b.

If you're quick enough to shoot my chute, good on ya, but I'll bet ya can't do it. I can .ef pretty darn fast.


Toonces

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I don't even know who you are.  Why would I be cranky?  LOL

That you take the game too seriously is your problem, not mine.  If my shooting your chute makes you upset, again, that is your problem and not mine.  Don't like it?  Get back in the air, shoot me down, and blast my chute.  Except you won't find me in a chute since I never bail.

-- Todd/Leviathn

LOLOL He won't see your chute, 'cause he will be hanging in his. For a moment or so.....

My regards,

Widewing

[Arlo]

Methinks you'll make out just fine. Can't wait to come back so you can shoot me down.

[rod367th]

Originally posted by trigger2
The HO was NOT done in Real Life. Maybe on one or two accounts it would be done, but in RL they saw the risks of it. Usually both planes would go down. Usually wasn't such small numbers as we see in AHII so after you shoot down one or two, you can't come over your area vox and say your goin home, you gotta stay and fight till they either head for the hills or are all dead. (Persoanlly I wouldn't care much for fighting a A6m in a p38 [US's main primary fighter] with missing aeilrons, elevators, fuel hits, wing chunks missing etc...) If I were to engage zekes or KI's or something, I'd wanna STAY in my prime, not risk it for an easy kill/death. The HO was usually done widespread (20-50 guys lined up on each side) the few times it was done when it was, all the pilots regarded it as "Playing chicken" or "seeing which one would pull out of it first"
In other words, none wanted to do it. It's cheap, takes minimal skill, and WASN'T done in RL. It was not apart of the AF's for any country (even Germany's and they had ramming 109's, so, in all truth, you can argue that a 109 ramming a bomber is historically accurate)

But try not to confuse a HO for a HM (Hot Merge)
I love when your in a stall fight (usually my corsair) and on the merge, you pull the trigger and you get accused of a HO. HO's aren't in my bag of tricks (unless i'm in the 1c and they initiate it, then I let the 20mm's do the talking :] )
HM's and HO's are two different things with similar outcomes.

Better go tell John glen he didn't fly in real life, also better tell usnavy training manual 1941 edition that telling pilots to ho in rela life wasn't done........... ho was done alot even was british pilot  who made his plane fly like crab so enemy didn't relize he was ho'ing. finish withover 20kills but hey your right ho'ing didn't happen . lol

[Widewing]

Originally posted by trigger2
The HO was NOT done in Real Life. Maybe on one or two accounts it would be done, but in RL they saw the risks of it. Usually both planes would go down.

Ah, incorrect. The Head On attack was Bong's favorite method. It was also taught at the 8th Air Force's Clobber College. Pilots were encouraged to attack head-on if that was their only option to get guns on the enemy. It was the fastest way to go from totally defensive to totally offensive.  

Listen, before you spout off nonsense, do a little research. Just research training documents and after action reports from WWII and you'll see that it was a common tactic.

My regards,

Widewing

[kamilyun]

Originally posted by Arlo
AH "ethics" threads are always good for a laugh. Right next to "chesspiece traitors" and "HTC is a tyrant" ones. I wish I could give kudos for baiting the masses but, unfortunately, this one comes off a bit too genuine ... and disconnected from what Aces High is - which is a game that doesn't enforce the artificial ethics some of it's players invent or imagine. Anything HTC thinks is wrong is dealt with immediately and harshly. If it doesn't show on their radar then the noise is nothing but sweet music to the ears of the initiated.

Even those who haven't flown a tour in ages, toonce.

But it's an interesting poll none the less.  Gives you a rough indication of what people's personal ethics are.  Nothing will change, and that's fine.  Players will always complain about the same old things, and we dismiss them as whiners.  But after seeing the #'s, I'm surprised some things score so high (er, low?) and others don't.  Interesting info.

Edit:

Like "Fake Check 6's" receive 84% "suck" score.  I think that's the funniest thing you can possibly do to someone!

And yet, the "airfield troop drop" is only scraping 50%, which I personally consider lame gaming-the-game type crap.  But whatever, maybe I'll start doing it so I can vulch some more!

[WMLute]

Originally posted by Widewing
Ah, incorrect. The Head On attack was Bong's favorite method. It was also taught at the 8th Air Force's Clobber College. Pilots were encouraged to attack head-on if that was their only option to get guns on the enemy. It was the fastest way to go from totally defensive to totally offensive.  

Listen, before you spout off nonsense, do a little research. Just research training documents and after action reports from WWII and you'll see that it was a common tactic.

My regards,

Widewing

Bolded is what most the "they ho'd in real life" crowd are failing to grasp.

Nobody who's looked into the Head On attack will say it wasn't done.

(gonna cap lock this next bit as it's important)

BUT IT WAS GENERALLY DONE AS A LAST DITCH MOVE, OR WHEN THEY HAD A HUGE GUN/ARMOR ADVANTAGE.

No pilot who intended to survive would use a head on attack as their first choice in attack.  What MORON would put themself infront of the nme guns on purpose?  When your LIFE is on the line, why would you even give the bad guys a CHANCE at killing you?  You wouldn't, unless you were desperate, or you had a HUGE advantage in the move.  There is a REASON pilots developed tactis OTHER than the Head On.

It happened.  No argument there.

But it wasn't a first/only option as many use it here in AcesHigh.

Let' say you are a WW2 pilot in a Spit that got jumped by a 109 w/ alt/e.  
You are on the defensive, they are on the attack.  
Let's also say you were in a bad postion and felt it was just a matter of time untill you got shot down.  
I COULD see you lining up a Head On attack to get the 109 out of position and on the instant defensive.  
It would be a move done in desperation, or as a way to get yourself out of a bad situation.

Let's say you are in the Pacific fighting nme that are lightly armored, with weak guns that out turns you.  Your fighter has heavy armor, and lot's of guns, and speed.  I COULD see the advantage of a Frontal Attack there.  I wouldn't do it exclusivly, but I could see where/why it would be done.

But please, let's not kid ourselves with the ole' "they did it in WW2" song and dance.  In desperation, in the RIGHT situation,  a HO is valid.  It has it's place in ACM.

As your ONE AND ONLY MOVE THAT YOU DO OVER AND OVER it's just lame.

Learn to fly.

[SEseph]

Originally posted by SuperDud
U r clueless.

As for chute shooting, it's hilarious espicially when I know it pisses guys like SEseph off. And as to his soccer analogy, that's a different world. It's what I like to call the real world. But in the world of pixels, it's totally different. You aren't going to get punched in the face in AH unlike in the real world. It doesn't make being a jerk ok, but once again it's just a game. And unless you love your fake AH country like you love your sports team then you should be ok. And if you do... well then it's time to get out into the sun light.

SuperDud, I'm not pissed off my cute being shot.. that's impossible. I said this once before, and you Super, keep proving me right.. you don't pay a lick of attention. I never open my chute. the moment I bail, I'm typing .ef because there is no need to open your chute. You can bail at 100 feet and type .ef and get a successful bail.

What I am irritated over is your feeling of superiority over others because you veiw your way of life as superior. I play these games and enjoy them and want to have something to care about. Why? I can't do much anymore because I gave my back in service to my country so that people like you can spit on me now that I can't do what I use to. I would do it again, because I want you to have the right to tell me how my life is worthless, or anyone else's. I didn't even know you until AH2 and I was willing to give my life for you. I guess this is how the world is: I don't know you, but I judge you based on my veiws, and you're bad, even though you make my way of life possible.

Good going mate. Maybe think next time before you judge a person's way of life.

[carhint]

Originally posted by SEseph
SuperDud, I'm not pissed off my cute being shot.. that's impossible. I said this once before, and you Super, keep proving me right.. you don't pay a lick of attention. I never open my chute. the moment I bail, I'm typing .ef because there is no need to open your chute. You can bail at 100 feet and type .ef and get a successful bail.

What I am irritated over is your feeling of superiority over others because you veiw your way of life as superior. I play these games and enjoy them and want to have something to care about. Why? I can't do much anymore because I gave my back in service to my country so that people like you can spit on me now that I can't do what I use to. I would do it again, because I want you to have the right to tell me how my life is worthless, or anyone else's. I didn't even know you until AH2 and I was willing to give my life for you. I guess this is how the world is: I don't know you, but I judge you based on my veiws, and you're bad, even though you make my way of life possible.

Good going mate. Maybe think next time before you judge a person's way of life.

Seseph

[SD67]

I'll usually not shoot chutes unless they are a risk, but I'll usually bail and open just because I may just get a hit or 2 with a .45.
I've made quite a few kills with the trusty .45
If I'm going to take the opportunity to do some ground recon I'll hold off opening until I'm seeing clear trees. that way I'm not hanging around for more than a second.

[VonMessa]

Originally posted by SD67
Volch

Been flying with ghi a bit?

In that case, it would be VOOOLCH!:rofl