Author Topic: Discussion (Read 7298 times)

dedalos · « **Reply #30 on:** October 30, 2007, 04:10:39 PM »

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Originally posted by kilz
all this talking about HOin i feel the need to call my girlfriend and ask her where she been

Do you really want to ask that in here?

TheDudeDVant · « **Reply #31 on:** October 30, 2007, 04:13:55 PM »

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Originally posted by dedalos
All I am saying is lets try it. I may be wrong but I think I am right. I think by trying to avoid, you are at the disadvantage not the HOer.

It depends on how you avoid.. 8) Most times it will but the HOer at a disadvantage to the HOe..

dedalos · « **Reply #32 on:** October 30, 2007, 04:30:22 PM »

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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
It depends on how you avoid.. 8) Most times it will but the HOer at a disadvantage to the HOe..

Why? Remember when you answer, do not assume a nube on the other plane but someone that knows how to fight. Why would he end up in a disadvantaged position? Don't assume he will follow through with guns blazing. Assume he will cut throttle and follow you as you break. That is what I want to try.

Someone new would be dead no matter what merge so it does not count

kilz · « **Reply #33 on:** October 30, 2007, 04:50:31 PM »

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Originally posted by dedalos
Do you really want to ask that in here?

dont give a crap due to the fact i have no wife nor have a set girlfriend:aok

humble · « **Reply #34 on:** October 30, 2007, 05:01:35 PM »

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Originally posted by dedalos
Why? Remember when you answer, do not assume a nube on the other plane but someone that knows how to fight. Why would he end up in a disadvantaged position? Don't assume he will follow through with guns blazing. Assume he will cut throttle and follow you as you break. That is what I want to try.

Someone new would be dead no matter what merge so it does not count

Ded,

anytime we're in the DA lets fool around with it. But lets look at it from a "you vs me" scenario in the DA. Your a better dueler then I am, if we're going for a merge and we have the "guns on" are you really going to look for a "HO" vs flyng your normal merge? I think that in the end your going to fly your normal merge because its good ACM. I dont think your going to give up good position for a marginal shot window....

Now we both know that many reasonably exerienced sticks are fundementally weak on the merge...so yes...you could establish the under, work in a bit of horizontal seperation for the hook and then fly an aggresive hook that gives you angles, E and a decent FQ shot window.

Now if we look at the concept of an "angles HO" then its really not. Your viewing what is esentially a "fake HO" to an aggresive angles opener that relies on the other guy flying in avoidence mode...not someone who has vis on you and is flying a "good" read and react merge.

Basically what your really saying is you can fly an aggresive line looking for an early merge to an all out angles attack off a good hook....basically 80% of all the spitV duels ever flown:)....

WMLute · « **Reply #35 on:** October 30, 2007, 05:10:10 PM »

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Originally posted by dedalos
Ha, thats the definition of a HO not how many people it takes. For example, when you twisting and turning with a couple of guys and a third dives in with the intent of HOing you it did not take two to HO. You did not see him coming and you are probably too slow to do anything about it. So, even though it took two planes lined up for it to be a HO, it only took 1 guy to force it.

Poor SA there then. But you are correct that if I am fully committed in a move, and some other nme comes in and faces shoots me, I couldn't avoid it. (but 99% of the time I DO see it coming)

BUT.

I put myself in that position. 100% my fault I was unable to maneuver. Usually I decide my death is worth killing the guy i'm about to shoot down and allow the HO and put myself in that position so I can kill someone.

I would also add that in 3-8 on 1 situations it's RARELY a ho that gets me (even if all 3-8 of 'em are trying to). Generally I get shot from behind pulling an offensive maneuver to shoot one of 'em down.

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Originally posted by dedalos
Exactly my point. I am not talking about some nube firing from 2K out in a 202 lol. If the HOer knows what he is doing and you are already within 2K you will lose parts. You will either expose your belly, end up turning at the merge too early etc. So, even though you avoided the HO it was probably worth taking in, lol. After all, I can avoid a HO by lawndarting but that is not a valid option. I guess I should have said successfully avoid the HO, lol.

I get ho'd 1000's of times a tour. I get HIT maybe 30. I take damage maybe 1/2 that, and actually die to one maybe 3-4. I'll merge with ya' as many times as you want dedalos. It will be rare indeed that you land a bullet, let alone shoot me down.

EXAMPLE: Last night I was low and slow in a 110 and was being attacked by a well known pilot in a LaLa. This pilot can actually fight btw. He ho'd my squaddie and killed 'em and then came for me. I don't recally how many passes they took on me, but we fought for a good 5-6 min at least. Time enough for my squaddie to re-up, fly back over (sector ish) and shoot 'em down. They landed ONE bullet on me. (took out my right elevator, and that was just me being sloppy. Wasn't, and didn't let THAT happen again)

WHY they didn't just chop throttle and saddle up on my 110 I have no idea. Lord knows if I was the la7 driver that 110 woulda lasted only a couple of moves.

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Originally posted by dedalos
Again, you confuse HOs and nubes. That guy was dead anyway. The dedicated HOers don't HO like that. They hold fire until the last second, lol.

They are STILL out of position trying for a face shot. The last second types are actually a bit easier to kill, as they are still holding down the trigger as I am 1/2 way around on them. You pull a face shot on me, you really have one option. Run like heck. You attempt any offensive maneuver after your HO, you will die, and die quick. If they DO just extend, typcially after the 3rd to 4th failed HO attempt they will try a "move" and that's where the fun begins. (tower time for the bad guy)

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Originally posted by dedalos
Well, first you would have to try and prove me wrong. Then you are too old to handle ouzo You will end up like supperdud

I'd be happy to prove you wrong. And i've been drinkin' ouzo for 20+ yrs, so bring it on.

(edit:

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Originally posted by dedalos
Don't assume he will follow through with guns blazing. Assume he will cut throttle and follow you as you break. That is what I want to try.

You will be starting the fight out of position. The pilot that did the lead turn while you were face shooting is starting the fight at a HUGE advantage.

Murdr · « **Reply #36 on:** October 30, 2007, 05:57:52 PM »

Ok. Now that I have more than a few mins to post...

"It takes two to HO"
This is an absolutely useless, worthless fracking, false words of wisdom from the peanut gallery type of statment. What does this add to a discussion?

For example, let's chage it to "It takes two to have a two car accident". Thank you Sherlock Holmes, you genious. Does that tell us what happened in the incident? Does that absolve one or both parties who caused the incident to happen? Supposedly that is the implication with "It takes two to HO". Appearently that means either nobody or both are to blame for a HO happening.

Fact is however, and your discussion clearly proves this, that a HO is sometimes a comepletely valid tactic, and other times it is a stupid choice of tactic among numerous better options.

So really, if you were not a party to, or a witness to the HO in question, you really have no constructive input to add to the resulting discussion. You are in no position to judge which scenario that specific incident fell under. "takes two to HO" is just a idiotic trolling non-statment, and the speaker can go _____ themselves in my opinion.

TwentyFo · « **Reply #37 on:** October 30, 2007, 06:21:15 PM »

I'll Ho a 262.

SuperDud · « **Reply #38 on:** October 30, 2007, 10:09:00 PM »

Oh deadalot, still sore you can rarely beat me? I think I'm up what... 30 to 3 or so? And that's me putting up a polite number.

bj229r · « **Reply #39 on:** October 30, 2007, 10:17:45 PM »

I REALLY try to avoid HO's, as most hoERS are tiffy's, nikis or Lgheys who only need ONE golden bb to, at the very least, hit my oil or 'main fuel' (jug)---its a very low% move, and I prefer to at least hold out the hope ill get more then 1 kill per death--but try as I might, roll, dive, etc, these lil bastids often do hit me with that golden bb, which validates their dweebish tactic ( I think biggest problem is I don't pick up on it until they've closed from 1.5ish to 800ish....not sure if it's better to roll out sooner or later))

SkyRock · « **Reply #40 on:** October 30, 2007, 10:18:17 PM »

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Originally posted by SuperDud
Oh deadalot, still sore you can rarely beat me? I think I'm up what... 30 to 3 or so? And that's me putting up a polite number.

why are you coming on here talking smack about Ded? He owns you on character alone, dweeebtard!

raider73 · « **Reply #41 on:** October 31, 2007, 05:29:15 AM »

i love how skyrock thinks he owns EVERYONE its just a game come on now skyrock........now if u were talking about football and owning then yeah i dont care about if someone does that cause i know no one in my league can own me im to good and did you play Football in Highschool Sky?

NCLawman · « **Reply #42 on:** October 31, 2007, 08:37:22 AM »

Here is an incident from last night. (Readers Digest Versioni)

I am flying a Typhie and went out at alt to find bad guy willing to be my cherry pick prey. (LOL) I find two lone bad guys well outside the furball I was intending to get to. So I dove in and after a few attempts on said badguys pinged one up, smoker and parts flying. He is rtb damage never saw him again. Second is a niki and he makes an attempt to jink and dodge trying to bleed off my E advantage. After a few moves I have lost some of my alt, but have ended up on his dead 6. I fire off a burst and kaboom, Kill 1.

I am now around 4000 feet and slow from trying to follow the nik without the overshoot. (We all know how lousy the Typhie flies when slow). As I look around, I see a 110 diving in from dead ahead 1.5K out. He started with both a speed and alt advantage. Yet, he dives in directly on the nose and levels off at 1K out headed right at me. At D800 I see the steady stream of tracers from all his cannons opening up. I pushed down slightly to try and get enough speed to even think about manuevering the Typhie and was trying to stay under the shots. By now, he had pushed down enough to stay on angle with me and actually pinged me around D400. I pulled back up to go high over his nose and avoid the pinging cannons and at D200, I let off a burst of my own cannon before successully going over the top of his plane.

As he has both the speed, E, and manueverabilty advatange at the moment, I looked back to see what his move was going to be before I decided my next move. It would seem that my volley was on the mark as his 110 was flaming badly and he was descending. A few moments later, I get a PM from non-said tard with a mock salute and a message, "Nice Ram ". (For the record, I never got a collision message)

So, let me get this straight, non-said 110 driver takes up a Ho-ing machine has both the speed and alt advatantage, sets-up a HO shot while I am engaged with another bandit. Opens up at between D1000 and D800, maintains a steady stream of cannon fire the entire time and countering every small move I make trying to keep his cannons on my nose; and, then when he dies, sends a PM talking trash. Does that about sum it up? How does one in good conscience set up a HO on a barely manueverable plane then complain about a ram? (LOL)

So, my question for this discussion thread (and this is not sarcastic, I truly want suggestions).... Once I have become low and slow and can barely turn, and another guy is intent on going for the HO (with the mighty Ho-monster) what are some feasible options for avoiding?

To save the trouble, yes, I am aware of the SA answer, don't let yourself get caught low and slow when there are other bandits in the area. That aside, I have made the mistake of ending up in the disadvantaged position and Ho-queen is coming in. What are suggestions on the escape and reversal when manuevering is limited?

>S< Thank you

dedalos · « **Reply #43 on:** October 31, 2007, 09:03:13 AM »

Hehe, this is where someone that can't fly his way out of a paper bag comes in and tells you that it is your fault for having bad SA and that you should have been flying more realistically.

dedalos · « **Reply #44 on:** October 31, 2007, 09:06:35 AM »

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Originally posted by SkyRock
why are you coming on here talking smack about Ded? He owns you on character alone, dweeebtard!

SupaPWN