A question of respect...

[humble]

Have to say I'm more then a bit disappointed in the Avengers so far. Not your "skillz" or even your choice in style of game play per se.

When you conduct yourselfs in a way that causes some of the "old guard" to actively ignore you and decide that the loss of respect your beginning to suffer is irrelevent I think your missing the boat. In the end respect is central to good game play.

Seperate from all the varying views over what the AvA "should be" the underlying isue of respect is important. Often the clashes here on the BBS actually run to this very issue...and I'll be the 1st to openly say that in the end even the opinions of those I vehemently disagree with are important to me with regard to my own game play. My hope was that you guys were an "old school" squad....from my limited observations so far sadly your not. In fact you appear to be the type of marginally skilled, digital dirt orients tpye of squad that (IMO) "ruined" the CT in the 1st place.

Hopefully over time you'll realize that being a "respected foe" is essential to your own enjoymnet and game play....then again...sadly maybe its not.

[bkwolf]

This is why I stay off 200,other than the once in a while From my POV flying along having fun and someone comes on 200 to say"fit in or F*ck off"..what??? Or my favorite "your not playing in OUR arena the way you should".. again, what? Isnt that like some one telling you how and what hand to hold the remote when you watch TV?..

[TequilaChaser]

bkwolf,  Varcius was way out of line in typing that, and those of us on the axis side called him on it, and told him he was out of line.


now, next post is what I endured from your squad in the AvsA tonight, in the beginning

[TequilaChaser]

got home in a timely manner this evening. Logged in and took off, had a good battle with Storch...think he was in a 109K4 or maybe was a G6.I was in a spit VIII.........vry good flying  storch landed  and logged, and I landed and asked where others were.

was 1 Avenger on and 1 no squad fellow ( new player  )

they were hitting undefended  axis bases.

I switched to Axis and then 2 more Avengers showed up. Noone was talking, saying hello, nothing...more proceeded to take off and fly under radar to differing fields of the Axis.

looked at roster was 7 Avengers now online, and 2 no squad players on same side as the Avengers verses just 1 Knight ( axis ) which was me. I continued to lok for where these Allied players were. I switched to allied and did a few go to commands. then switched back to Axis..

no les than 8 were flying in P51D's flying now over 18K alt or higher and doing RADAR pork runs.......

I chased these high P51D flyers for almost 3/4's of an hour ...........I finally got lucky and got one to turn and semi engage me...he did well, for the most part he conserved his Energy real good. then he  misjudged and rammed into me from behind by going to fast  I was flying the Bf110-G2 ( or which ever is enabled )

at this time 2 P51s showed up and started winging together, they started out quiet well, about the 3rd reversal/rev I had worked them both into the same hemisphere , now they switched to  BnZ front 1/4 shooting........

one plane flys off no where to be seen, the other I am giving chase as he climbs to safety....jamusta logs on and ask what is going on, as I am typing to him and laughing the 1st P51 that left came back and nailed me......no complaints at this time.

I up again, heading toward the last fight and grabbing alt...then here they come 4 & 5 P51D's most making frontal shots.. as far as teamwork goes, this was quite good at anyone time I had 2 P51s flying at me from either headon or from the side.........I get hit in the oil and lose my hub cannon ( am flying the 109K4 now, I am almost  about to land and I go deadstick, motor seizes up....as I am fixing to touch down, had a  Pilot Wound btw, as I am on approach, I hear a hauling arse P51D coming.......I am like 2 to 3 sectors away from where I left the group  4 or 5 P51s. Well here is a P51 bearing down on me trying to vylch my deadstick plane as I am about to land......I blackout and crash trying to set down........proxie kill awarded to Warmonger  of the Avengers.....

well he was so fast had to be doing 550 mph the rate he was moving. I immediately reupped  and before I could grab to 1.5K alt off the field I had 5 damn P51d's engaging me........jamusta comes in and gets 2 of them, but I am already beat back down again.all on a field that this squad was not even trying to take, or cap........heck for over a solid hour before these few little encounters this squad made radar knock out sweeps of every surrounding enemy field with no opposition logged on except the lonely 1 axis player ( me ).
about this time, when I had seen and had enough and been beat down again, one of the Avengers gave a   I gave a right back. after all, with the actions they had showed me they truly deserve it.

Next, these guys up a bomber mission and fly around the radar circles  as if they was in a FSO or in a life or death SCENARIO....and go bomb field 37........

I do not see why they want to bring "fly alone , pork radar so they are hidden, bomb undefended fields, take undefended fields, and slap each other on the back" type game play to the AvsA.......

and they do not show any respect toward how the players who have been here , who even sides until enough are on that they can THEN do their missions,  come in here and say they are one of the best, if not the best WB squad. From what I saw tonight, it is no wonder why others had left WB for AH before them, and is no wonder they fly like this. if WB has noone left, then these guys have been milkrunning without opposition over there, or it might be the other shoe fitting here, and the WB crowd got tired of the BS antics and ran this squad off........



Now, Avengers we always welcome new blood, but you should respect the players who have been here far longer than any of you, and if you want to play in this Arena either play with in the paremiters of how we do things, and also enjoy your missions when the numbers fair it, but also be honorable and even out sides when the  roster shows 9 allied vs 1 or 2  axis...........

you need to think hard about what you want to do, and either step up or step off!

[Arlo]

Respect (Aretha Franklin)

What you want (hooo) baby I got it
What you need (hooo) you know I got it
(Hooo) all I'm asking (hooo) is for a little respect
( Just a little bit) when you come home
(Just a little bit) hey baby ( Just little bit)
When you come home ( Just a Little Bit) Mister

I ain't gonna do you wrong while you're gone
I ain't gonna do you wrong 'cause I don't wanna
All I'm asking is for a little respect when you come home
(Just a Little Bit) Baby ( Just a little bit )
When you come home ( Just a little Bit) Yeah

I'm about to give you all my money
And all I'm asking in return honey
Is to give me my propers when you get home
(Justa Justa Justa) Yeah baby when you get home

( Just a little Bit ) Yeah ( Just a little bit )

Hooo your kisses sweeter than honey and guess what so is my money
All I want you to do for me is give it to me whn you get home
( Re re re re spect) Yeah baby whip it to me
( Just a little bit) when you get home now ( Just a little bit)

R-E-S-P-E-C-T find out what it means to me
R-E-S-P-E-C-T, Take care, TCB ohhhh (Sock it to me,etc.)

A little respect oh yeah ( Just a little bit)
A little respect ( Just a little Bit)

[lutrel]

First, I'd like to thank the guys that showed up and fought both with and against us.  We had a great time in there and had some good fights while escorting the bombers.  LOL, we'd a had that base if Bull had loaded his goony with troops instead of panty hose.

To those who would rather insult us and toss around "F" bombs on channel 200 all night than fly, you can expect to be ignored.  But, just for the record, I do not care what you think of us as a squad, I do not care how bored you are, I do not care how talented you feel we are or not, I do not care that you are too lazy to climb up to the bombers and I do not care if you think it's your arena, get used to it because we are not going anywhere.  

It's a very large map with plenty of room for everyone to fly their own personal style.  I will not get on a soap box and put down anyone else for flying differently than we do; I would expect the same from others.  See y'all on Thursday Night.

[storch]

well tonight after most of the avengers logged off there were some new players in the arena, all in spits all ganging and all offering reasons why they should be doing so.  after some frustration on my part with these guys I fired off a few profane words and logged.

I was in the wrong there, I apologize for my lack of judgement and quick temper.  these guys are coming from the MA where that type of gameplay is the norm, furthermore they are hopelessly outclassed unless they are in a horde.

I hope they return to the arena, I hope that at some point the concept of the fight over the kill will begin to take hold in these guys.

a 2 v1 can be fun for an average player if he is the 1 and some novices are the 2 but once it becomes 3, 4, and 5 spits repeatedly it just gets old.

however even if it means getting clobbered every fight by these over adrenalined baby seals it's still fun for a little bit because even if I die I come away with a few pelts before they do me in.

again sorry for the outburst chapel, I was out of line.

[storch]

Originally posted by lutrel
First, I'd like to thank the guys that showed up and fought both with and against us.  We had a great time in there and had some good fights while escorting the bombers.  LOL, we'd a had that base if Bull had loaded his goony with troops instead of panty hose.

To those who would rather insult us and toss around "F" bombs on channel 200 all night than fly, you can expect to be ignored.  But, just for the record, I do not care what you think of us as a squad, I do not care how bored you are, I do not care how talented you feel we are or not, I do not care that you are too lazy to climb up to the bombers and I do not care if you think it's your arena, get used to it because we are not going anywhere.  

It's a very large map with plenty of room for everyone to fly their own personal style.  I will not get on a soap box and put down anyone else for flying differently than we do; I would expect the same from others.  See y'all on Thursday Night.

I'll repeat it because it is worth doing so.  you guys play well together, once you figure out the FM you will be a great squad to fight.

I don't agree with your method of play but I appreciate your forthright attitude.

at least when you guys are on I know you'll pork the radar and gang the crap out of me in my blindness.  no problems, don't go changing to try and please me.

all the best avengers, I had fun while you were on.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by lutrel
First, I'd like to thank the guys that showed up and fought both with and against us.  We had a great time in there and had some good fights while escorting the bombers.  LOL, we'd a had that base if Bull had loaded his goony with troops instead of panty hose.

To those who would rather insult us and toss around "F" bombs on channel 200 all night than fly, you can expect to be ignored.  But, just for the record, I do not care what you think of us as a squad, I do not care how bored you are, I do not care how talented you feel we are or not, I do not care that you are too lazy to climb up to the bombers and I do not care if you think it's your arena, get used to it because we are not going anywhere.  

It's a very large map with plenty of room for everyone to fly their own personal style.  I will not get on a soap box and put down anyone else for flying differently than we do; I would expect the same from others.  See y'all on Thursday Night.

I have not flown against you guys yet. I am glad you are here. You guys do what it is you do to have fun. But do keep in mind that the AvA is give and take. Im not asking you to do something you dont want to or to fly like some one thinks you should. Just use common sense when it comes to numbers and such when you may have alot of guys on and little in the way of bad guys.  Pounding some n00b 5 on 1 wont get him to stay very long. Just a suggestion.  

<> Avengers, Im looking forward to killing each and every one of you soon.

[humble]

I was curious what your reply would be, you've answered my questions quite nicely. In fact your answer really does go along way toward explaining why you chose the AvA as your "new home". When I logged on you had a 9 to 3 numbers advantage and had already created some significant ruffled feathers among your few "adversaries".

This had nothing to do with your ability level or chosen style of play...but everything to do with your attitude and conduct. The mere fact that you dont care what established veterans think of your squad and its conduct amazes me.

I'm part of a squad that is largely unregimented in that we have no established "squad night", have no real structure per se and rarely run "missions". The only that matters to us is a group is our mutual respect for each other and the other members of the AH community. We've never booted anyone based on skill level.....but dont hesitate to ask anyone to leave who doesnt measure up to a high level of "citizenship" in the AH community. We're also full up at 64 members most of the time...

We all view or association with the squad as a privilege and a type of responsibility and conduct ourselfs accordingly (although we all have our moments as is human nature). This is a cartoon game, with cartoon planes and artifical objectives. Interaction with others is at its core....not "digital dirt" objectives. If your intent is to solidify the avengers squad nights as "noobs night out" then your going about things correctly....

I chose not to respond to your reply directly but would like to make a few points....

1) I dont believe anyone has heard me utter a single foul word about your squad either on vox or text so it was inapropriate to put anything "Fbomb" related in this thread or specific to me.

2) It's entirely possible to have a mission oriented play style without porking game play. In fact I'd make the observation that your overall attack on 37 was pretty much similiar to what I outlined before. And given reasonable opposition a viable option...but at 9 to 3 numbers it simply makes you look noobish. you really need to climb to 15k+ and roll in with B-26's and ponies...?

Now given the realities at hand a good AH squad would have launched either an A-20, mossie or jug raid. The entire goal is to try and create a balanced fight vs the smaller numbers. We'd also have put the target out on 200 to make sure we got all 3 "bad guys" involved.

[raptor33]

I have to laugh. On this board, we were given some pretty insightful suggestions, and we decided to take advantage of the constructive criticism, and we gave it a shot. To paraphrase.....'bombers tight in formation, at least 2 gtroups of winged fighter support with alt above the bombers...etc ...etc...etc...ANd such adviuce was great advice.....
Ahhhh...
So now we need to first check the nmumbers before we fly to see if such a mission should be run. Hey...listen up.....we like to run missions...THAT IS WHAT WE ENJOY. If there is one on or 101 on as opposition....we like to run missions. To many of us, this is nothing but a computer game unless you bring into it some"relative realism"...like running a mission. We are all was buffs and like strategy....WE LIKE TO RUN MISSIONS.
To us, flying around looking for a fight gets boring....WE LIKE TO FLY MISSIONS...GET USED TO IT.
I have an idea for you few veterans that think ytou are King of the arena becuase you have been flying these FM's long enough to be good at it (sort of like my young son who can whip my butt at mario on Nintendo because he plays it alot more than I do)....LEAVE IF YOU DONT LIKE OUR STYLE OF GAMEPLAY. I lioke what we do in the arena and I pay like everyone else. We dont game the game, we do not jeopardize the integrity of the game....we do not hack and we do not try to beat the system. We treat the arena the way it was designed....Seems to me that you treat the arena like the dueling arena.
Also....attack an undefended field? Curious.....how do you attack a defended field? How do you know if it will NOT be defended until you attack it? Should we fly all the way there to see no one up and therefore scrub the mission. Grab a hanky Snap....stop your childish whining and either adapt to our gameplay or move on to the dueling arena. You have not and will not push us out of the arena.
Raptor33

[storch]

Originally posted by raptor33
I have to laugh. On this board, blah blah blah. You have not and will not push us out of the arena.
Raptor33

you guys go ahead and play as you want.  you are absolutely correct that it's your fifteen bucks and so forth.

I like the polarization, I like disliking opponents.  I also would like to dislike you guys but I'm having a hard time doing so.

if you will allow me to offer this suggestion it might make the game better for you and for us that completely enjoy slapping you down.  dude, please, spare no expense, cut no corner and make every possible effort to aquire fighter skills.

for without fighter skills you are just a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.  if you have the gift of bombingness and can pork every dar set in a quadrant and know you have blinded all of the axis for hours to come but have not fighter skills you are nothing.

if you drop every bomb with exact precision and subject the entire map to flames so as to make it resemble my next birthday cake but have not fighter skills you gain nothing.

fighter skill is patient, fighter skill is kind it, does not envy bomber skill, it does not boast, it is not proud, it is not rude, it is not self seeking nor is it easily angered, it keeps no record of bomber wrongs.  fighter skill does not delight in bomber mischief and evil but rejoices in flaming buffs and leaving avenger parts haphazardly strewn over the cartoon landscape.  it always protects, always trusts in 20mm and 30mm bursts into the bomber cockpits and always perseveres until the last box is pixellated junk.

fighter skill never fails, but where there are bombers they will cease to fly, where there is 200 smack it will be stilled; where there is bomber skill, it will pass away.  for now we know in part but when fighter perfection comes the imperfect bomber skills will disappear.

when I was a noob I thought like a noob, when I became a fighter veteran I put noobish ways behind me.  now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror, then we shall see face to face.  now we know in part, then we shall know fully as we are fully known.

and now these three remain GVs, bombers and fighter skills.  but the greatest of these is fighter skills.

be reasonable, see it my way.

all the best.

[raptor33]

Point well made and taken Storch. Fighter skills is something we all have...albeit, some better than others....but we all had the ability to fight with success...but with different FM's than in AH. Not sure which sim is more accurate as it pertains to FM's....but such is irrelevant. We need to, and will adapt to the FM in AH and all the while honing our fighter skills.
In AH for example, the "blackout" threshold is at less of a g-force than in WB's....we need to find that fine line in each new ride we choose. The lack of engine piutch fluctuation is something we are also adapting to....such the reason for so many compressions and so many blackouts. Hell....last night I was in a stang D and I had no idea of my speed, as the pitch of the engine was the same as it was when I first leveled off...I was going over 400 MPH....So it is not lack of fighter skills...it is lack of experience with these FM's.SOmne of you recognize that this is not real life...it is a computer game no matter how you cut it. The more experience one has with a computer game, the better they get. Like my younger son...He became great at one nintendo game, but then was a newbie in the next...then he becmae a pro at that, but a newbie with the third game...and so on.
As for the insults and cursing on 200....We, the avengers ignore such crap. We have seen it many times in the past and sure to see it for months to come. We ignore it like we would iugnore any child having a temper tantrum...Of course, this is not at all directed to you Storch. You have more than proven to me that you are an individual of integrity and maturity. You advise.....you do not try to look like the king by insulting the newbies. Much appreciated.

Raptor 33

[storch]

Originally posted by raptor33
 blah, blah, blah.  this is not at all directed to you Storch. You have more than proven to me that you are an individual of integrity and maturity. You advise.....you do not try to look like the king by insulting the newbies. Much appreciated.

Raptor 33

 well that statement right there will soon produce a good quantity of WTFs from the peanut gallery.  it probably won't fly.

[raptor33]

Not sure what that means storch....but I give up. It is not that you guys won...so dont start the dancing. Instead I realize I am playing a game with a bunch of children. I have two children. I dont need to play with more.
Raptor