Author Topic: What is a Militia?  (Read 19990 times)

Offline Xargos

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What is a Militia?
« Reply #165 on: November 24, 2007, 11:20:30 PM »
But I guess taxes going to people who are unwilling to work is OK?
Jeffery R."Xargos" Ward

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Offline Xargos

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What is a Militia?
« Reply #166 on: November 24, 2007, 11:23:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
Timothy McVeigh thought he was part of a "militia." ;)


And Hillary Clinton thinks she's human.
Jeffery R."Xargos" Ward

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Offline Arlo

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What is a Militia?
« Reply #167 on: November 24, 2007, 11:25:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Xargos
But I guess taxes going to people who are unwilling to work is OK?


Don't whine-change the subject. We're talking taxes and guns, boyo. I've paid enough in SSI alone to have my own arsenal. And if the whole "point" of the right-sided argument surrounding amendment numero dos is over "God-given right to gun ownership" and "every man is a militia protecting this nation from itself" and maybe even "criminals got nice guns, why can't we have some too?" then gawdammit W, where's my M-16?

:D

Offline Arlo

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What is a Militia?
« Reply #168 on: November 24, 2007, 11:26:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Xargos
And Hillary Clinton thinks she's human.


Well that was just a random neuron misfire moment. Keep up with me here. ;)

Offline Xargos

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« Reply #169 on: November 24, 2007, 11:30:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
Well that was just a random neuron misfire moment. Keep up with me here. ;)


lol...   :D
Jeffery R."Xargos" Ward

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Offline Xargos

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« Reply #170 on: November 24, 2007, 11:35:08 PM »
Arlo, I never thought we should have gone into Iraq to began with, but since we are somewhat stuck their I believe our troops should have the best gear that money can buy.  I have no problem with my taxes protecting them, but I'd rather see them withdrawn.
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Offline Arlo

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What is a Militia?
« Reply #171 on: November 24, 2007, 11:37:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Xargos
Arlo, I never thought we should have gone into Iraq to began with, but since we are somewhat stuck their I believe our troops should have the best gear that money can buy.  I have no problem with my taxes protecting them, but I'd rather see them withdrawn.


Well then ... there goes your M-16, man. :D

Offline FrodeMk3

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What is a Militia?
« Reply #172 on: November 24, 2007, 11:40:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
Freud would have a field day here. :)

Xargos, where does the funding for the war come from? Which taxes really represent the war tax? And with that much investment couldn't the government give every adult in the nation a free M-16 along with a monthly clip of ammo and have quite a bit left over? Wait a sec ....

$586.00 a rifle ....

Age structure: (2007 est.)

0–19 years: 27.4% (male 42,667,761; female 40,328,895)
20–64 years: 60.1% (male 89,881,041; female 90,813,578)
65 years and over: 12.6% (male 15,858,477; female 21,991,195)

Leaving out 19 years of age and younger .... round up to 230 million souls ....

Almost 135 billion ... for the rifles, anyhow.

Cost of Iraq war to date: 471 billion and counting.

Hell, Halliburton pizzed off more than the cost of arming the entire citizenry with "the modern day equivilant of muskets."

Granted, I haven't taken into account felons or the mentally disabled.

I could see a tax. But who gets their M-16 first? How does one apply? Is there a seperate tax for body armor? Do public schools make bootcamp mandatory?

:aok


Hey Arlo...What happens' when you factor in illegal aliens??? :lol

Just joking. I know that there's no way to get a reliable number on those-It would be best guess. But they seem to be working alotta the menial jobs' that would normally be paying taxes' back into the system, aren't they?

Offline Arlo

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What is a Militia?
« Reply #173 on: November 24, 2007, 11:44:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Xargos
You're Militia, you have to supply your own gear.  You and I are not a Standing Army.


Mneh. That's "rich man militia" talk. If the arguments of "God-given right", "protection from our own government" and "equalizing against the criminals" have feet to stand on then they need to be universal truths and universally applied.

You claimed one can't be pro-tax and pro-gun. Really now? :D
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 11:52:12 PM by Arlo »

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #174 on: November 24, 2007, 11:45:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Hey Arlo...What happens' when you factor in illegal aliens??? :lol

Just joking. I know that there's no way to get a reliable number on those-It would be best guess. But they seem to be working alotta the menial jobs' that would normally be paying taxes' back into the system, aren't they?


If they wanna hide from "la migre" it's hard to apply for the M-16. :cool:

Offline Xargos

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« Reply #175 on: November 24, 2007, 11:46:59 PM »
I withdrew that post Arlo because I misread a statement of yours.
Jeffery R."Xargos" Ward

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Offline Arlo

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What is a Militia?
« Reply #176 on: November 24, 2007, 11:48:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Xargos
I withdrew that post Arlo because I misread a statement of yours.


Not a prob. I thought we were on a roll. :)

Offline sgt203

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What is a Militia?
« Reply #177 on: November 24, 2007, 11:49:58 PM »
The text of a post I made from 3/07 about this very issue:

I for one have always beleived the right for Citizens to KEEP and bear arms is just that, a right for each individual citizen to own, keep and bear arms.

The constant assaults against this position and a recent court ruling from Washington DC (which is being appealed by the City of Washington DC) which stated this right does extend to the individual citizen have made me want to look into his deeper and see what the framers of the US Constitution had in mind with the second amendment.

I did some research and have posted what I found below..

United States Bill of Rights (ratfied December 15, 1791)

The Second Amendment " A well regulated militia, being neccessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".


Having looked at this in the abstract, standing alone, I can see where some may feel this means this is for a "Militia" (army) and not the individual, however standing alone also "the right of the people" seem to be fairly clear also.

To understand what the founders of this country were trying to say I looked at the US Declaration of Independence. A part of this jumped out at me as fairly important to the state of mind of the founding fathers of this country. ....."but when a long train of abuses and usurpations pursuing the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security".

The Declaration of Independence was signed July 4, 1776 and the first 10 amendments were ratified by the States on December 15, 1791. Originally the Bill of Rights only applied to the Federal Goverment but many series of 20th century court cases by the Supreme Court have stated that these rights (most of them) apply to the states.

So I looked at the Individual State Constitutions for the original 13 colonies.

Pennsylvania Adopted Sept 28, 1776

Section 21 Right to Bear Arms.

The right OF THE CITIZENS to bear arms in defense of THEMSELVES AND THE STATE shall not be infirnged

New Hampshire June 2, 1784

Artilce 2-a The Bearing of Arms

All person have the right to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves, their families, their property and the State.

Georgia (as revised Jan 2005)

Article 1 Section 1 RIGHTS OF PERSONS

Thye right of the poeple to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, but the general assembly shall have the power to prescribe the manner in which arms may be BORNE.

Massechusetts Bill of Rights 1780

Article 17.
The people have the right to keep and bear arms for the common defense....

Rhode Island 1663-1843 new Constitution adopted 1780

Section 22 Right to bear Arms
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Virginia June 1788

Article 17
That the people have the right to keep and bear arms...(amended)

North Carolina August 1788

Article 17
That the people have the right to keep and bear arms (amended)

***North Carolina and Virginia read exactly the same***

Delaware Sept 11, 1776 and Maryland May 8, 1867

Both read..

That a well regulated militia is the proper and natural defense of a free Government.

Del article 18 Maryland Art 28.

New York April 20, 1777

Article XL..

And whereas it is of the utmost importance to the safety of every state that it should always be in a condition of defense; and it is the duty of every man who enjoys the protection of society to be prepared and willing to defend it, this convention therefor, in the name and by the authority of the good people of this state, doth ordain, determine and delcare that the militia of this state, at all times hereafter, as well in peace as in war. shall be armed and disciplined and in readiness for service...

My conclusions:

Most of the constitutions of these states were ratified PRIOR to the United States Bill of Rights and a majority make it unambiguoius as to the intent that the CITIZENS have the right to keep and bear arms. There are some exceptions where the INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS are not expressly stated New York, Delaware and Maryland and to some extent Massechusetts.

However the MAJORITY OF THE STATES THAT WERE NEEDED TO RATIFY THE UNITED STATES BILL OF RIGHTS CLEARLY BY THEIR OWN CONSTITUTIONS INFER THIS RIGHT UPON THE INDIVIDUAL CITIZEN, NOT UPON THE STATES.

In as much as the United States Bill of Rights sets forth the MINIMUM STANDARDS OF RIGHT FOR ALL CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES.. Those states who have less than plain defining language as to the individual right ARE BOUND TO EXTEND THESE MINIMUM RIGHTS TO THEIR CITIZENS..

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #178 on: November 25, 2007, 12:10:31 AM »
Carry that M-16 wherever you go. Don't forget the ammo. A modern day minuteman isn't much use without the ammo.

That means:

- To the office
- Weddings
- Honeymoons
- Funerals
- Bar Mitzvahs
- Seeing the mistress
- Bowling
- Skiing
- Vegas
- and on and on .....

Maybe there should be a hefty fine if we're ever caught without our M-16s or the ammo they require.

May come a day where you damn the oppressive government that shackled that toy to you but one must remember why it's there.

I'm all for this. :D

Offline Xargos

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What is a Militia?
« Reply #179 on: November 25, 2007, 12:25:33 AM »
There is a old law in my State that requires you to bring a rifle to church on Sundays...lol

http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/south-carolina/
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 01:26:28 AM by Xargos »
Jeffery R."Xargos" Ward

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