Author Topic: WTfG New Jersey - Life - Not Death (Read 2294 times)

LEADPIG · « **Reply #45 on:** December 17, 2007, 05:06:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Perhaps, perhaps not. I'll leave that to the likes of pyschologists. I do agree with Yeager, the permanent solution is to dispose of the killer. That way you ensure that A) no break out of prison and harm again can occur....and B) Closure for the victims families. I personally think those two outweigh everything.

Ripsnort they kill people so infrequently do you really think that has a major effect on the actual killers being released and the crimes commited. Again Ripsnort hardly anybody escapes from jail especially people on death row. I think they kill somewhere in the neighborhood of i think 16 to 30 or so killers here in Texas. Sometimes it's something like 2 or 3. That makes a huge difference i'm sure out of all the other murderous a$*holes out there. So the death penalty is effecting crime alot.

Halo · « **Reply #46 on:** December 17, 2007, 05:07:37 PM »

Murderers deserve to die quickly. Once they are convicted, for any society and victims to support such criminals, feeding and clothing and housing them for any length of time, let alone for the rest of their life, is absurd.

LEADPIG · « **Reply #47 on:** December 17, 2007, 05:10:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Then the legal system has run its course, and worked just like its supposed to.

What about executing only those with evidence suggesting positive DNA matches to the crime scene/victim? Do you agree with that?

Definately if the dna shows that a person was involved kill them. If not no.

And Ripsnort if you believe the justice system is infallible you've got to be really gullible. It's not perfect but it's the best we got.

AKIron · « **Reply #48 on:** December 17, 2007, 05:12:10 PM »

How about we accomodate everyone here. The death penalty for murdering a conservative but no death penalty for murdering a liberal. Underage kids assume the political standing of their parents.

On second thought, how about no penalty at all for murdering a liberal. WIN/WIN!

Ripsnort · « **Reply #49 on:** December 17, 2007, 05:14:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by LEADPIG
Ripsnort they kill people so infrequently do you really think that has a major effect on the actual killers being released and the crimes commited. Again Ripsnort hardly anybody escapes from jail especially people on death row. I think they kill somewhere in the neighborhood of i think 16 to 30 or so killers here in Texas. Sometimes it's something like 2 or 3. That makes a huge difference i'm sure out of all the other murderous a$*holes out there. So the death penalty is effecting crime alot.

Here is what you get when you don't settle for the more permanent solution for the problem:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/845211.stm
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1929235/posts

And some good reading of one of the more famous cases:
http://www.amazon.com/Freed-Kill-Story-Serial-Murderer/dp/0380715465

LEADPIG · « **Reply #50 on:** December 17, 2007, 05:15:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by john9001
prove it, prove that a murder was not prevented because of the death penalty.

John prove to me that you pee standing up, you people and you prove it stuff.

Sure i'm sure the death penalty stopped a killer obviously. However would that guy have ever gotten out of jail in the first place probably not. His blank would still be in the joint, death penalty or not.

LEADPIG · « **Reply #51 on:** December 17, 2007, 05:32:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Here is what you get when you don't settle for the more permanent solution for the problem:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/845211.stm
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1929235/posts

And some good reading of one of the more famous cases:
http://www.amazon.com/Freed-Kill-Story-Serial-Murderer/dp/0380715465

Again Rip i am a proponent of the death penalty but playing devils advocate as i usually do to state a point. Your presentation of a few people getting off and commiting crimes and holding that up as major absolute evidence is not all that convincing. I can look past that and see, that out of the people on death row very few get out period. Let alone to kill again.

So your presentation of three cases is not very convincing. Okay lets say your "evidence" is representative of a larger number, which i'm sure it is. The death penalty is not a deterent to the thousands of murders that occur every year. The few cases you showed is absolute evidence against that? Once again i say kill em all, at least those people you showed would still be alive. But you gotta admit that a psycopath doesn't give a s*it about the death penalty and the few people that are actually executed doesn't make a huge difference.

LEADPIG · « **Reply #52 on:** December 17, 2007, 05:37:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by john9001
prove it, prove that a murder was not prevented because of the death penalty.

Oh and John the murder wasn't prevented it was just avenged, the murder has already happened. Predicting one that might happen in the future is in truth just that...predicting. Again i don't mind the death penalty, i'm just saying though.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #53 on:** December 17, 2007, 05:46:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Doesn't surprise me...its Jersey for crissake!

Doesnt surprise me either the the government here goes against the will of the people.

The death penalty was repealed in spite of the majority of the people wanting to keep it for serial killers and murderers of children.

We havent executed anyone since 1963.
In spite of people voting back in the death penalty.

you want to live in a state where the government And John (the emperor) Corzine in particular doesnt give a damn about the people want.

Move to Jersey

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #54 on:** December 17, 2007, 05:49:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Speed55
-New Jersey has not executed a prisoner since 1963.

The new legislation replaces the death penalty with life in prison without parole. The bill was introduced in November after a state commission concluded capital punishment was an ineffective deterrent to crime. -

NO CHIT!

Yea a commision nobody but them knew anything about.
This entire matter was only brought to the publics attention within the last week.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #55 on:** December 17, 2007, 05:53:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by VonMessa
Agreed. I'm glad I live on the OTHER side of the river so my tax money doesn't go to pay the salaries of the the "leaders" of Jersey.

Besides, it smells worse on their side than ours, and I'm allowed to pump my own gas here.

Allowed. or forced to?

Personally I dont at all mind having gas pumped for me. particularly when its cold or raining out.

Trust me. it stinks just as bad on your side of the river as ours.
You just dont notice it because your used to the smell LOL

john9001 · « **Reply #56 on:** December 17, 2007, 05:55:55 PM »

<
Authorities searched over the weekend for Jose Espinosa, who was awaiting sentencing for manslaughter, and Otis Blunt, who was facing robbery and other charges. They also launched a review of jail security>>

"Jose Espinosa, who was awaiting sentencing for manslaughter,"

yes murderers never get out of jail, i hope the people in NJ feel safer now.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #57 on:** December 17, 2007, 06:37:46 PM »

The cost of housing an inamte in NJ is currently about $31,973 a year.

After 20 years.not taking infalton into account it will cost $639,460

thats just for one prisoner.

seems like a big waste of money to me for somone who will never again see the light of day as a free person.

bongaroo · « **Reply #58 on:** December 17, 2007, 07:23:02 PM »

costs waaaaayyy more to put them on death row. i'm for no death penalty and a good reason is the costs.

what about people who were put to death that didn't get to prove their innocence with dna evidence? also, every human system is prone to failure at some point no matter how hard we try, so why risk killing an innocent even if it is minute?

went to a good debate a few years ago on campus. the man for the death penalty gave a lot of reasons and arguments. the man against made the argument that people get no real closure or satisfaction from another death, the pro-death penalty man tried to say they did. in the end turns out the guy against had seen his sisters murderer put to death and it never made him feel any better or bring closure to his loss.

Ripsnort: the chart is flawed in that it tries to give the only reason for increased murders to the number of convicts put to death. LOTS of reasons caused the increases in murder and crime rates and the decrease in executions isn't very strongly statistically linked

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #59 on:** December 17, 2007, 11:16:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bongaroo
costs waaaaayyy more to put them on death row. i'm for no death penalty and a good reason is the costs.

what about people who were put to death that didn't get to prove their innocence with dna evidence? also, every human system is prone to failure at some point no matter how hard we try, so why risk killing an innocent even if it is minute?

went to a good debate a few years ago on campus. the man for the death penalty gave a lot of reasons and arguments. the man against made the argument that people get no real closure or satisfaction from another death, the pro-death penalty man tried to say they did. in the end turns out the guy against had seen his sisters murderer put to death and it never made him feel any better or bring closure to his loss.

Ripsnort: the chart is flawed in that it tries to give the only reason for increased murders to the number of convicts put to death. LOTS of reasons caused the increases in murder and crime rates and the decrease in executions isn't very strongly statistically linked

I am for the death penalty where the convicteds guilt is without question.
the case would have to be more then circumstantial.

And life without parole for those whom there might be a minute chance of proving innocence.

My way. for example.
Jeffery Dahmer would have been executed
Scott Peterson would not