Author Topic: something from Dogfights (Read 5036 times)

Bucky73 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 07, 2008, 12:18:24 PM »

It's a wonder there are any p51 pilots still alive after battling the 109's:rofl

Spiffing · « **Reply #16 on:** January 07, 2008, 12:19:45 PM »

The move is possible and done every day in Aces High, probably by folks who don't even realize it. Chop throttle, pull up, kick rudder, bring nose over and down and to the side.

Dogfights did not accurately represent the move properly and hence the confusion. They had the 51 "spin" around far too quickly. I think the actual real move in question was completed a little slower but with the same effect – I also agree, the chap describing it probably knows what he’s talking about, old or not.

Viking · « **Reply #17 on:** January 07, 2008, 12:24:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bucky73
It's a wonder there are any p51 pilots still alive after battling the 109's:rofl

The Luftwaffe had orders to avoid combat with fighters if possible, and to only go after the bombers. One of the great mistakes of the Luftwaffe IMHO. The Germans had jet fighters too from the summer of 1944 ... didn't win the war for them ... didn't kill all P-51's either ... still there is no denying the Me 262 was far superior to the P-51 and anything else the Allies had at the time.

Yeager · « **Reply #18 on:** January 07, 2008, 12:35:03 PM »

I totally disagree with your "ignore reality, accept the abstract machinations of this game as-is" mentality -- because then when its broke nobody will fix it in your philosophy.
====
Krusty,

I dont bother myself with how the FM2 or Hurrc2 performed in reality during world war two, I only concern myself with how they perform "in game". I dont concern myself with LW tactics during a world war 60 years ago, I only concern myself with how the good 109 sticks tend to use that aeroplane "in game".

Of course if you think you have found a technical deficiency about any of these things I wholeheartedly support you in your quest to straighten HTC out!~

Now for me, back to "the game"

SlapShot · « **Reply #19 on:** January 07, 2008, 12:38:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Spiffing
The move is possible and done every day in Aces High, probably by folks who don't even realize it. Chop throttle, pull up, kick rudder, bring nose over and down and to the side.

Dogfights did not accurately represent the move properly and hence the confusion. They had the 51 "spin" around far too quickly. I think the actual real move in question was completed a little slower but with the same effect – I also agree, the chap describing it probably knows what he’s talking about, old or not.

I too think that Candelaria's move was described correctly and accurately by him, and I also think that the representation of that move, by Dogfights, was accurately portrayed as he described.

Krusty · « **Reply #20 on:** January 07, 2008, 12:43:47 PM »

In this case? Sure, maybe. In other cases? Some are less likely.

Like I said, can't take that show as gospel truth.

SlapShot · « **Reply #21 on:** January 07, 2008, 12:50:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Like I said, can't take that show as gospel truth.

Understandable ... I think they chalk some of it up to ... "creative license".

Yeager · « **Reply #22 on:** January 07, 2008, 01:18:57 PM »

I think they chalk some of it up to ... "creative license".
====
Most anyone who trys to convince you that they know better than you do will use creative license to make their point. Its part of the illustrative process.......

I went ahead and purchased season one Dogfights on DVD because I enjoy it so much. I especially enjoy the way veterans whined when they were attacked Head On......

Guppy35 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 07, 2008, 01:58:29 PM »

I enjoyed the Mustang episode as they were talking to Don Bryan of the 352nd and it was specific to his 5 kill mission on November 2, 1944. That was the date the DGS scenario was designed around.

As for the moves shown and thier validity. I'm not going to challenge the memory of a guy who at the moment he made the move was basically choosing between getting shot with a cannon round, and potentially breaking his airplane to try to avoid it.

I'm guessing that his memory might be quite good of a life or death moment like that.

SlapShot · « **Reply #24 on:** January 07, 2008, 01:59:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Yeager
I went ahead and purchased season one Dogfights on DVD because I enjoy it so much. I especially enjoy the way veterans whined when they were attacked Head On......

viper215 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 07, 2008, 02:15:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
So, let me get this straight....

You believe everything the Discovery Channel tells you?

History channel:noid

Stang · « **Reply #26 on:** January 07, 2008, 02:16:55 PM »

zomg, viper!

viper215 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 07, 2008, 02:27:23 PM »

long time no see lol

Krusty · « **Reply #28 on:** January 07, 2008, 03:01:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by viper215
History channel:noid

Same entity.

Ghastly · « **Reply #29 on:** January 07, 2008, 04:06:05 PM »

It's pretty complex to accurately represent flight characteristics WITHIN the normal flight envelope, given all the variables involved coupled with the fact that much of the data that you'd ideally want either doesn't exist or is contradictory.

It's much Much MUCH harder to accurately predict the results when you cross over the EDGE of the flight envelope (which is what is being described).

FWIW, I think HTC has done a pretty good job of representing departure characteristics, given that it's a very chaotic and non-linear event.

I have noticed however that the aircraft in AH seem to "float" in some pretty bizarre ways when they depart. Attempt a vertical tailslide or a hammerhead in an F4U-1A for example, and you'll see what I mean.