Author Topic: I Love the Hellcat!  (Read 2554 times)

Offline Rich46yo

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I Love the Hellcat!
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2008, 12:56:30 PM »
Ive been experimenting with the flaps in the TA, and trying to time their use. I haven't had opportunity to use them in MA combat yet as Ive mostly been B&Z'ing in my Hellcats, "which I almost always bomb with first". As a bomb and rocket platform I love it even more then I do a Jug.

                      And it doesnt feel as heavy as a Jug. The Hellcat is just a sweetheart to fly. No doubt about it.
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Offline Gixer

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« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2008, 04:40:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wadke
If it can't outrun it...it can out turn it.


I've never seen the advantage of this statement. If the other pilot is dumb enough to try turn with it then fair enough easy kill. But if I can outrun it, I'm going to try maintain an E advantage and switch the fight to verticle.

Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
The usage of flaps ... both dropping and pulling them back in, and when to do that ... is the key to sustained turn fighting in the HellCat.


I agree, but problem with using flaps is that it sucks E and with flaps out for sustained turn fighting is never going to be as sustained or effective as aircraft that doesn't have to use flaps.


The Hellcat is a excellent plane in may respects (jack of all trades) and a favourite along with the FM2. But being a jack of all trades means that it doesn't excel in any one area in a Co E Co Alt engagement to gain the advantage in any particular type of fight.


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Offline BaldEagl

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« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2008, 02:02:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gixer
The Hellcat is a excellent plane in may respects (jack of all trades) and a favourite along with the FM2. But being a jack of all trades means that it doesn't excel in any one area in a Co E Co Alt engagement to gain the advantage in any particular type of fight.


In AH terms, being a jack of all trades usually means that the plane has at least one exploitable advantage against any foe.  The F6F typically has more than one.

As with any plane, success lies in utilizing its strengths against your opponents weaknesses.  The F6F, as a jack of all trades, simply gives you more options than a lot of other planes and therefore, can gain the advantage in many different types of fights.
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Offline Wadke

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Re: Re: I Love the Hellcat!
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2008, 09:39:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot

Too bad u suk in them tho. [/B]



DA now!!! :furious :furious :furious :furious :furious

Offline Gixer

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« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2008, 10:21:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BaldEagl
In AH terms, being a jack of all trades usually means that the plane has at least one exploitable advantage against any foe.  The F6F typically has more than one.

As with any plane, success lies in utilizing its strengths against your opponents weaknesses.  The F6F, as a jack of all trades, simply gives you more options than a lot of other planes and therefore, can gain the advantage in many different types of fights.


Well your explination of "Jack of all trades" is different to mine. I've always thought it meant it was good in many different rolls but not excellent in any. Which therefore means it isn't going to gain an advantage over a dedicated BnZ'r in a Zoom fight or a dedicated turner in a TnB fight.

One thing it holds it ability to take damage and is a very nice steady gun platform.


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Offline BaldEagl

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« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2008, 11:41:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gixer
Well your explination of "Jack of all trades" is different to mine. I've always thought it meant it was good in many different rolls but not excellent in any. Which therefore means it isn't going to gain an advantage over a dedicated BnZ'r in a Zoom fight or a dedicated turner in a TnB fight.


No, our definitions are the same but you wouldn't try to zoom with a dedicated b'n'zer in a dedicated t'n'ber either (or vice versa).  You'd try to get the b'n'zer turning, just as you would in an F6F.  If you did, you'd win as handily as a t'n'ber would.  Likewise, you have the ability to play b'n'z with a t'n'ber rather than play his game and e-fight with any of the e-figters.

The F6F though, with a head of steam, might just be able to beat a b'n'zer at his own game, and, in the right hands, might be able to beat a t'n'ber at his.  If things go bad trying this, you still have the flexibility to take the fight to the other end of the spectrum, taking the dedicated fighter out of his element.
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Offline waystin2

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« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2008, 12:34:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BaldEagl
OK.  Stop this thread now!  All I've seen in the arenas the past few days are Hellcats.


LOL Bald.  You and another pilot's positive comments reinforced my choice of the F6F5 as my Jabo plane.  Don't you own some of the blame for encouraging relatively new pilot(s) in their endeavours?:lol
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Offline Gixer

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« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2008, 03:21:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BaldEagl
The F6F though, with a head of steam, might just be able to beat a b'n'zer at his own game, and, in the right hands, might be able to beat a t'n'ber at his.  If things go bad trying this, you still have the flexibility to take the fight to the other end of the spectrum, taking the dedicated fighter out of his element.



Yes I agree with all that type of fight, common sense. I was referring to the actual specific performance of the aircraft itself in the comparison to other more dedicated aircraft.

Anyway if you fly your aircraft to your opponents advantage instead of yours you deserve a quick trip to the tower, no matter what your opponent is flying.


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Offline Caz1

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« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2008, 03:38:45 PM »
I think one of the primary assumptions many people on this thread (not all) are making in an F6F vs. Spit/Zero contest is that the Spit or Zeke driver will be passably competent.

I also think there's a tendency to jump in a Spit, Zero, or LA7 when you see a hellcat porking your town, because those are perceived as being the plane that will give you the greatest advantage with repelling the attack - and that's probably true.  However, I think a lot of pilots who normally favor other rides don't give enough consideration to how much of a factor their lack of experience with these specific planes is when they up them.

The reason I say this, is that I can recollect dozens of times over the past year where I've dumped ords on an airfield's town, and then entered a turning fight with a capping spit, zero, or la7, and handily beat them.  In most cases they entered the fight with a respectable energy state.  That's also considering that I'm probably an intermediate pilot at best, skillwise.  After the affair I'll sometimes check a score or two at the boards and discover that the pilot I just shot down is a much better flier than I am, but that they typically fly other, 'non-dweeb' rides (to use the vernacular that has been tossed around on this thread already).

To the guy who was talking about getting his flap-control down in the TA:  This probably goes without saying, but if you don't have a set of rudder pedals (like my broke butt), try mapping them to a logical mapping on a cheap-o stick that has lots of buttons.  In my case, I use my $29 FoxPro2 stick's lower button for "flaps down" and upper button for "flaps up".  This way I never have to remember which button does what when I'm in the heat of battle - down means down & up means up (hope that makes sense).  I took to this layout straight away and it's really helped me get my flap-usage to improve.

One last thing - I don't see how anyone could rate the F6 better than a Jug as a Jabo.  I think people are hard on the Jug because they tend to pack it to the gills with ords, ammo and fuel, and then complain when a Niki or Spit comes along and hands them their oscar.  This problem gets compounded by the fact that, because folks are using their Jugs as mini-B17s, they tend to try to hold onto their ords far longer than they would in other rides in the same situation.

If you think the Jug feels a bit heavy, try taking less internal fuel (especially in the N model), the lighter 8X50cal ammo load, and the same amount of ords as the Hellcat (don't add the extra 500 lb bomb).  Once you've done this, try a zero G or negative G full power dive on a town to drop your ords and then WEP climb away - at very high speed the Jug trades its E for alt better than any other plane I've ever flown, and as much as I like the F6F, I think the Jug easily excells over the Hellcat in Jabo'ing - if you give it the aforementioned similar ords load-out, and use WEP to compensate for the plane's heavier weight in dive/climb situations.  Add in the two extra 50 cals and four extra rockets you get in the deal and you have a great recipe for airfield suppression & de-acking.  Really, the only thing you have to do for that trade is start your run 1 or 2 k higher.  In a Jug with that loadout, the extra alt amounts to 1-2 more minutes on autoclimb before you begin your run.  

In summary, as much as I love the F6F, I still think the Jug (when properly loaded out) is a better ride when it comes to Jabo missions - unless your intent is to drop ords and turn with an enemy like a dog chasing its tail. ;)

Just my 0.02 cents.

Offline CAP1

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« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2008, 04:16:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Not trying to poke you in the eye or nothing, but a Zeke vs F6F in a sustained turn fight ... well ... it shouldn't be sustained. The Zeke should clean it's clock if the HellCat decides to actually turn fight the Zeke.

Do you fly with "stall limiter" on ? ... I only ask, cause the Zeke should dispatch the F6F very quickly in a true turn fight.

As BaldEagl said, he and I mixed it up in a Spit V vs F6F. After short knife fights, I did have to extend ... 1-1.5K to reset ... because if I stuck around and continued the knife fight, the Spit V would have dominated ... same as with a Zeke.


:huh <<<<<<<<<< now look at whatcha did!!!! me eyes are different sizes!!!! :rofl

no, i keep the stall limiter off......i think it was ren, or murdr explained that to me in TA when i was first in there.......so i turned it off, and haven't turned it back on since.....i also don't fly with auto combat trim on...it always feels to me as if it fight against me when i get into a slower turnfight.

ok...i thought that too.....nd like i said, he was keeping slightly nose down..and it was more of he was flying s descending spiral than an actual turnfight......i didn't know what to do except to stay in it, as i felt if i exited it in any way, i'd find him in back of me......
 in the circle though......i had tried a few times to pull inside him,.,,,,with reduced throttle, but i was too fast for flaps....and every time i started to come inside him, i was going into blackout...i tried to ride through the tunnel, but as i held it the tunnel was closing up too much.....i kinda figured that's why he kept his nose down..and wonder if maybe i shouldn't have followed him down through it......i also thought i filmed it, but i was just looking through my films and can't find it. i do remember i didn't have a drop tank onboard..but then again, i've very easily outturned almost anything with one hanging....except another zeke.........
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Offline bsdaddict

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« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2008, 07:00:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Not trying to poke you in the eye or nothing, but a Zeke vs F6F in a sustained turn fight ... well ... it shouldn't be sustained. The Zeke should clean it's clock if the HellCat decides to actually turn fight the Zeke.
Does the zero still outturn the hellcat at 300+?  Cap mentioned seeing the the kitty was keeping his nose down, hence keeping his speed up...  I'm no expert but wouldn't 300+mph equalize things a bit in that situation?

Offline RATTFINK

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Re: I Love the Hellcat!
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2008, 11:32:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rich46yo
No I aint that good in one but I just love the way this airplane flys and fights. I love the ords it carries and how a flight of them can reduce a base to ashes. I love dive bombing it and how well it recovers and grabs alt again. I love taking off from CVs with it, and hunting CVs with it. I love the guns. I love the way it handles turns. I think it climbs decent for such a large aircraft.

                This is a great airplane.




YOU ROCK!!!


The F6F is the shyte <>

Put H.A.C.K. in your signature sir.

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Offline CAP1

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« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2008, 11:37:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bsdaddict
Does the zero still outturn the hellcat at 300+?  Cap mentioned seeing the the kitty was keeping his nose down, hence keeping his speed up...  I'm no expert but wouldn't 300+mph equalize things a bit in that situation?


he was keeping nose down...but i don't know how fast we were going, as i cuoldn't realy "come back inside the cockpit" to see....i had to keep my eyes on him....but like i said..if i got near to being inside his turn, i was going into full blackout, even with seriously reduced throttle......


on a different note.........your avatar is i think one of my new favorites....i had to sit here and wathc it a few times as i almost spit soda on my monitor!:aok :rofl
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Offline bozon

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« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2008, 02:15:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Caz1
In summary, as much as I love the F6F, I still think the Jug (when properly loaded out) is a better ride when it comes to Jabo missions

Unless you are in the middle of the ocean and need to take of a carrier, that is.

Hellcat's JABO capability is part of it being 'all rounder'. Like all its others capabilities, it is good, but not the best. Unlike real life, the MA conditions favor the one trick ponies (no pun intended).
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

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Offline bsdaddict

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« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2008, 08:50:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by CAP1
he was keeping nose down...but i don't know how fast we were going, as i cuoldn't realy "come back inside the cockpit" to see....i had to keep my eyes on him....but like i said..if i got near to being inside his turn, i was going into full blackout, even with seriously reduced throttle......


on a different note.........your avatar is i think one of my new favorites....i had to sit here and wathc it a few times as i almost spit soda on my monitor!:aok :rofl
hehe, thanks.  I've got Soda72 to thank for making it small enough to use here.  this is what the original looked like...



there's some other good ones in this thread.