Author Topic: Corsair stalls (Read 2450 times)

SD67 · « **on:** February 21, 2008, 06:27:40 AM »

I remember when I first started flying AHII one of the things that struck me was the accuracy of the flight model.
My favourite aircraft was the Corsair, so naturally I immediately took one up and I was immediately impressed with how accurately the flight model represented everything I'd read.
These aircraft were nicknamed "ensign eliminators" due to their unforgiving low speed stall characteristics. They would drop a wing and enter a spin at the onset of a very abrupt stall. Recently I've noticed they F4-U is more forgiving that I remember. Is it just that my cartoon skills have just improved to the point that I can manage it better or has the Corsair model been softened some?

thrila · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2008, 06:44:02 AM »

Since the flaps update, the f4u's have become very forgiving. They are amongst the finest low speed handling planes in AH, if not the best.

Saxman · « **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2008, 07:29:21 AM »

I disagree thrila. The flaps are certainly uber and greatly improve low-speed turning ability, but NOT stability. She's still twitchy and will snap out from under you with little to no warning. I still lose her from time to time, just usually am able to recover before it becomes fatal.

I think it's more a matter of SD67's skill, as I in no way would call the F4Us forgiving for inexperienced players.

thrila · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:00:26 AM »

I simply don't agree. I don't fly them often but when i do they're a joy to fly. The stall can be prevented often enough just by easing on the stick when a wing begins to slowly dip. The plane has very little torque and is easily handled at speeds below 100mph, even at around 70 mph ASI with a high angle of attack the plane is controllable. In comparison to most other planes i believe she is unrivalled at low speeds. The rudder authority at low speeds is awesome too.

Krusty · « **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:12:11 AM »

I agree with thrila.

One of my first planes I ever remember taking off in (offline) waaaaay back was a F4u1D and I wasn't very experienced, so it had a NASTY stall. I went in 3-4 times on takeoff alone before switching craft and trying others.

The airflow recode SERIOUSLY made the corsairs uber. Way beyond their capabilities should. The flaps on these planes are now seriously unrealistic, and the gentle as a baby's bottom stall hasn't made me spin out or dip a wing since the recode.

They're uber. They're overmodeled. Before the recode they were second tier, delegated to jabo. Almost unused. Now you'll find more f4us than p51s most times in a furball. It out turns all but spit5s, to boot!

(do you realize the turn radius goes from 700 feet to 400 feet with full flaps? That's almost a 50% reduction in turn radius for ALL corsairs!! Most planes with full flaps only get 25%-30% reduction in turn radius.)

Delirium · « **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:20:02 AM »

The current modeling of the F4U makes it into a UFO at low speed, no doubt about it.

JimBeam · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:20:51 AM »

"The airflow recode SERIOUSLY made the corsairs uber. Way beyond their capabilities should. The flaps on these planes are now seriously unrealistic, and the gentle as a baby's bottom stall hasn't made me spin out or dip a wing since the recode."

even with the rudder authority if you push the f4u to its limits it'll dip a wing then progress to a spin in a heart beat...but it is very easy to recover from that spin with alittle alt.

Arlo · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:28:39 AM »

Whoa ....

All this Corsair love .....

I didn't notice too much difference offline from what I remembered it being like over a couple years ago. Was hopin' that simply meant my skills hadn't eroded that much. Thanks for burstin' my bubble!

Bruv119 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2008, 09:29:10 AM »

Very smooth in the stall for me.

I had to bust a gut to outturn a guy slow in my spit8 the other day.

Hardly anything tests my spit8!

I'll mix it up with zeros, hurris you name it i'll have a couple of turns with it. Seriously had to work around it.

Only problem it does have is regaining E when you've had full flaps out.

Not the best acceleration.

Saxman · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2008, 11:29:12 AM »

Wasn't it Widewing who had video of a REAL F4U performing the exact same sorts of maneuvering that the better Hog sticks pull off in the game?

With all the notes, numbers and other hard data that gets posted regarding the historical effectiveness of the Corsair's flaps (even the pilot's operation manuals show that the Corsair's flaps generate an ENORMOUS amount of lift especially power on) it amazes me how often these threads come up.

Noir · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2008, 12:01:18 PM »

tip in spit to defeat corsairs...start to turnfight until you are under 150mph then go into pure verticals (watch your wings

). The F4U weight will make the difference.

I've read some BS website yesterday which was claiming the F4U4 is the best fighter/bomber of the war.

http://home.att.net/~historyzone/F4U-4.html

I don't know where that guy found the F4U had a great 6 view...

Baumer · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2008, 12:11:23 PM »

I think the power off stall for most planes in Aces High are modeled for non fliers. This is especially apparent in the F4U-1 when landing on a carrier. The dash one should be the most difficult plane to land on a CV and it's rather easy. Chance Vought addressed the problem of the left wing suddenly dropping in the power off (Dirty) stall by adding a small spoiler just outboard of the guns on the right wing. This meant that both wings would drop at the same time, not alleviate the sudden stall. I believe this was done from the -1A on.

I have heard that HiTech has compared his RV-8 to the game and it's very close to what happens in the game. It just seems that from my experience that as aircraft weight goes up, the feeling of the stall suddenly dropping increases. Stall a T-6 wings level and it shudders then the nose drops cleanly.

I do understand making the game enjoyable for everyone and certain compromises have to be made. If we have easy stalls to keep more people in the game and flying then that's fine by me. we just need to accept that it's not always going to match real life.

Of course, taking advantage of every limit to get the kill, or stay live is also part of the game.

Saxman · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2008, 12:49:24 PM »

Noir,

He didn't. He NEVER said the F4U had a great rear view, just good general all-around visibility, which anywhere but dead-six the bubble-top Corsairs DO have a pretty clean view (the rear view alleviated somewhat by shifting in the seat).

I've read this article before, and agree with its assessment. If you're going to call it BS then first make sure you read it right, and second, WHY?

Noir · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2008, 01:43:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Saxman
Noir,

He didn't. He NEVER said the F4U had a great rear view, just good general all-around visibility, which anywhere but dead-six the bubble-top Corsairs DO have a pretty clean view (the rear view alleviated somewhat by shifting in the seat).

I've read this article before, and agree with its assessment. If you're going to call it BS then first make sure you read it right, and second, WHY?

Ok my miss on the visibilty misread, maybe its no BS but....can't he compare F4U with anything that is NOT a P51 ? That guy says he's objective, basing his text on data only, but all I can see is a subjective analysis.

One exemple is the speed comparison.

Quote

Speed: The -4 was about 10 mph faster than the P-51D at the altitude where the Mustang developed it’s highest speed. Advantage: F4U-4.

We are talking about the best in war or the best american plane ? And at what altitude ?

Read the other articles they are in the same spirit, biased info IMO. One that got me

is about the P-38 size and shape, The P-38: Is Size And Shape A Disadvantage?

Reading that we can almost believe the P-38 was a great diver

Krusty · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2008, 01:56:56 PM »

This is a very nice clip here:

http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/F4U.html

I used the windows media player link (below the real media links).

Right aroudn 13:30 or so they show stalls. Total stalls, the entire wing drops and the plane is almost instantly inverted. Real footage, no less!! Flaps out stalls are less violent but looks like he's about to spin out at a moment's notice (the nose tucks under and seems to crab sideways)

I wonder if those fuel consumption numbers match AH. They say max cruise on lean gets you less than 100 GPH burn, full power 250 gph, but if you reduce RPM below max cruise you can lean it out to 45 GPH or so.

THAT would be an amazing amount of fuel conservation! I need to compare to AH next time I'm up.