Author Topic: Rules of Engagement in AVA (Read 3209 times)

toonces3 · « **Reply #60 on:** February 22, 2008, 11:59:30 AM »

Those ROE sound harder than the real life ROE I've had to follow on missions.

If you're flying into a horde and don't have a good fight, why is this a surprise?

The last time I wanted a 'good fight' in the AvA (during the 'war'), I upped from a field with no red dots and flew to an enemy field and did lazy circles at the edge of their radar ring for a few minutes. 5 minutes later Kong1 showed up, and although I am the suxor in the jug, I had a fun fight nonetheless. Maybe not so fun for him, but hey, I did my best.

Either make it the 'dueling arena AvA' like before with 5 guys on and your ROE, or have a 'war AvA' and leave the artificial ROE at home.

I'm calling BS on this inability to find a 'good fight.' If I can do it, you regulars should be able to do so.

Just my .02.

Alky · « **Reply #61 on:** February 22, 2008, 12:33:00 PM »

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Originally posted by VonMessa
If it is red, I'll shoot at it. On land, sea, in the air, landing, taking off, rearming, in the hanger, in the ack, AFK, head on, deflection, low/high 6, or in the damn
O'Club drinking a beer.

If you get in my crosshairs, shame on you. I will shoot at you.

I can't recall being extended the courtesy of a "fair" fight, so why should I do the same?

If I get in your crosshair, shame on me.

dedalos · « **Reply #62 on:** February 22, 2008, 12:47:05 PM »

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Originally posted by toonces3
Those ROE sound harder than the real life ROE I've had to follow on missions.

If you're flying into a horde and don't have a good fight, why is this a surprise?

The last time I wanted a 'good fight' in the AvA (during the 'war'), I upped from a field with no red dots and flew to an enemy field and did lazy circles at the edge of their radar ring for a few minutes. 5 minutes later Kong1 showed up, and although I am the suxor in the jug, I had a fun fight nonetheless. Maybe not so fun for him, but hey, I did my best.

Either make it the 'dueling arena AvA' like before with 5 guys on and your ROE, or have a 'war AvA' and leave the artificial ROE at home.

I'm calling BS on this inability to find a 'good fight.' If I can do it, you regulars should be able to do so.

Just my .02.

So, in order to find a fight you had to fly away from people and wait/hope for a single con to come up. You don't see anything wrong with having to avoid people in order to find a fight? Why would it be too hard for the hord to send only 2 after you?

How many fights did you find anyway? Was there more or just that one?

I really can't read you toonces. You were there before the change and talked about good fights, even though you could usually be found at 15K diving on some one and refusing to engage if you did not have alt advantage. And I mean, actually typing that on 200. Now you are there after the change probably doing the same? Witch one do you prefer?

dedalos · « **Reply #63 on:** February 22, 2008, 12:48:10 PM »

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Originally posted by KONG1
Ded has a valid point. Without fail it seems that those that advocate dweeb play are those that can't put up a good fight. But at the heart of it I believe it to be a chicken and egg thing. Does the inability to fight lead to the lame attitude or does the lame attitude lead to the inability to fight.

I've played long enough to witness several fresh nooblets develop into steely eyed killing machines. The thing they all seem to have in common is that they keep upping and head straight for the fight. They come right back at you despite being blown to digital bits. They value the fight over the kill or points. They don't like to gang, ho and receive no particular pleasure from defeating the clueless because to them only the hard won victory tastes sweet.

I've seen many players who become quite proficient at lame game play. The HO experts, the pick artists who are great shots and have become very proficient at exploiting even their own team mates to get cheap kills, the guy that can execute an extraordinarily accurate pork-auger run, and the ones that derive their self esteem from the accomplishments of the group. This leads me to believe that they are capable of developing real fighting skills but their luzer attitudes have lead them to develop luzer skills.

In conclusion, the ability doesn't create the attitude, the attitude creates the ability. The incessant arguments in the forums are really quite useless. The lame mindset is genetically ingrained and people do not change. Born a luzer always a luzer. If you knew these people outside of the game you would see that their personalities are quite consistent. These luzers are the ones that will seek wealth regardless of the means. They will be political back-stabbing do-nothing corporate types. They will be politicians, preachers, salesmen and assorted other forms of low life. They will be liberal minded whiners who think that they are owed a living and everything wrong in their life is someone else's fault. They will be the majority. And lastly they all seem to live in denial and share a profound lack of self awareness so, in short, they could be you........

What he said

Not to mention that I had people on their 3rd or 4th week hand me my arse in the DA. It is really not that hard but you do have to try a couple of times.

Oldman731 · « **Reply #64 on:** February 22, 2008, 12:57:56 PM »

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Originally posted by toonces3
I'm calling BS on this inability to find a 'good fight.' If I can do it, you regulars should be able to do so.

You found your good fight by avoiding the main fight, and by being fortunate enough to encounter Kong who, for all his contrariness on these boards, generally sticks to the principles that started this thread out. I'll bet he didn't HO you, probably didn't lead you into ack, nor call his friends to come give him a hand, nor run away from you. And you had a great time with a memorable fight.

- oldman

toonces3 · « **Reply #65 on:** February 22, 2008, 01:09:57 PM »

You're kidding me, right Ded?

Check my scores in the AvA. Ok, I know you're not going to do that so I'll save you the trouble and make my point. My K/D in AvA is about 0.3. Heck maybe less. Part of that is because most of the folks in the AvA are better than me. Most of that is that I will engage in any fight in there regardless of advantage or disadvantage.

As many times as you and I have fought against each other, and together, in the AvA, I'm surprised you would say something like that. How many times have I fought you in there, in any plane, without regard to advantage?

Anyway, that's besides the point.

MY point is this: if I want to fight one v one, it's not that hard to do. When there were 5 guys on (the 'old' days) it was very easy to find a 1v1 or 2v2 and to stay out of another guy's good fight.

With 40 guys on, it's much harder to wander into the horde and figure out who's having a 'good fight' or furballing or whether that 109 I just merged with was my first merge or second merge, or whether that shot against the maneuvering con is a HO or a front quarter shot while I'm avoiding the two guys on my 6.

I logged on, saw where the 'war' was going on, and lifted at the bottom of the map where nobody was. Tooled over to an enemy base and hung out at 9k figuring sooner or later someone would come over to fight.

Last night I flew an F4U over to where a few dots were and had a good fight with Storch. It wasn't that hard to do. Heck he even told me what color plane he had so I could find him in the mix.

If you want the 'old' AvA then having gentlemen's fights is fine. If you're going to have a 'war' AvA then I say to hell with the rules and bring it on.

I don't think a gentlemen's rule set and the 'war' setup are compatible with each other.

toonces3 · « **Reply #66 on:** February 22, 2008, 01:13:13 PM »

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Originally posted by Oldman731
You found your good fight by avoiding the main fight, and by being fortunate enough to encounter Kong who, for all his contrariness on these boards, generally sticks to the principles that started this thread out. I'll bet he didn't HO you, probably didn't lead you into ack, nor call his friends to come give him a hand, nor run away from you. And you had a great time with a memorable fight.

- oldman

Everything you just said is true, and is my point.

I didn't fly into the main fight to find this fight, and I wouldn't have expected to.

You guys have seen me in there enough times. I'll conform to however you guys want people to play in there, but I think you're beating your head against a brick wall trying to enforce (or even suggest) a code of conduct while at the same time encouraging a capture type war system.

Odee · « **Reply #67 on:** February 22, 2008, 03:36:52 PM »

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Originally posted by captain1ma
and the allieds do it all the time too. lets be fair. everyone does it!!

I can only report what I see first hand sir. However, I'm sure you are correct that both sides do it plenty. In fact, I'm going to start doing my share this coming rounds.

As another player said:

Quote

If it's red and in my sites, BANG! If I happen to stray into the red's sites, then shame on me.

or something to that effect.

Bukrub · « **Reply #68 on:** February 22, 2008, 05:37:07 PM »

If Im not shooting, I will be climbing.

If you don't want HO'd then point your nose away from me.

Dont take off from a capped field, and you wont get voulched.

If your bingo, You should have planned better.

I wont let you land your kills. Get a better wing man.

If you want to be alone with your sheep, Hide where I cant find ya.

~~BUK~~

WWM · « **Reply #69 on:** February 22, 2008, 06:55:59 PM »

And they have spoken! Now all you old AvA vets GET OUT if you don't like it!

Shifty · « **Reply #70 on:** February 22, 2008, 07:00:30 PM »

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Originally posted by WWM
And they have spoken! Now all you old AvA vets GET OUT if you don't like it!

Well the chest thumping has ended, and the ankle humping begins.

WWM · « **Reply #71 on:** February 22, 2008, 07:53:54 PM »

na..I'm just amazed at the number of posts I see, as the one above my last, from people who have came here and successfully changed an arena that several good friends once enjoyed for years without any consideration. Kick'em while there down.
I have gained enough respect for TC and Dedalos alone from their help, friendship, and good fights that I would consider closeing my account if the AvA would go back to tradition. I've always got a when they kill me and they would PM me to talk about the last engagement in a if I screwed up. That makes an impression on new guys and eventually makes for a good adversary.

I asked for two bases, in a thread, on the edge of the map to be made uncaptureable and set aside for the old AvA guys to have some fun times. What would two bases hurt the new arena? No responce from staff thus far...

Shifty · « **Reply #72 on:** February 22, 2008, 08:33:36 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by WWM
I asked for two bases, in a thread, on the edge of the map to be made uncaptureable and set aside for the old AvA guys to have some fun times. What would two bases hurt the new arena? No responce from staff thus far...

Wouldn't hurt a thing:aok

ACB · « **Reply #73 on:** February 22, 2008, 08:56:59 PM »

Ive got respect for your suggestion. But I thought the AvA was supposed to be more of the Historical War sim. Which is why I think it is cool. But I dont know about the whole fight fair thing. Its supposed to be a war sim. What I read in the ole dusty books at the library dosent say anything about letting an enemy land after he is out of ammo or low on fuel. Or coming in at the enemy's alt and fighting his fight. Especially with us poor allied pilots facing the awesome turn fighters you guys are buzzing around in. And alot of you Axis guys are good. Im def not as experienced as alot of you and if the Hellcat could beat a zeke in a low turn fight im probably not the guy thats gonna make it happen. Anyway im gonna continue to us the Hellcats strengths in the AvA and scream for help when a KI or Zeke catches me slow or sneaks up on me. And if im in a good 1v1 and a friendly pops up and smokes you. Well your dead and thats kinda the point. I like team work and enjoy the way I play. Im sure somebody will get fired up about it but its cool. ~~to all you ditry axis pilots (just in character)~~

Larry · « **Reply #74 on:** February 22, 2008, 09:07:13 PM »

Game acb say it with me... G A M E. Some of us like the old "fair fight" way it was alot more fun and you didnt have to worry about someone poping you in the face when you are already in a 1v1. You want historcal try the SEA, because thats more historical then this war.