Author Topic: 5"/38 Cal MK12 vs T13E1 75mm  (Read 1973 times)

Offline NOT

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5"/38 Cal MK12 vs T13E1 75mm
« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2008, 05:15:52 PM »
6x156= 936.






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Offline moot

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5"/38 Cal MK12 vs T13E1 75mm
« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2008, 06:13:02 PM »
Thanks, I had thought 6x5" stood for 6 in some unit of length by 5" inch diameter.
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Offline Stoney

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« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2008, 06:13:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
No. A single 5" rocket equals 156lbs of ordonance in destructive power.


So, given that the U.S. Navy 5" projectile only weighs in at 25 kg, you think they're counting the kinetic to give us the extra 100 lbs of damage?  Far as I know, the rocket weighed around 150 lbs each.  But, seeing how the motor is spent rather quickly, you shouldn't get any fuel to count towards that value.  Seems like the 5" HVAR is > it should be, with respect to destructive power, as well as the 75-76mm series cannon rounds.
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Offline Lusche

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« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2008, 07:28:24 PM »
This discussion is getting a bit confusing for me non-native english speaker, so bear with me when I try to sum it all up a bit:

All damage values in AH2 are given in lbs "bomb-equivalents."
Now when comparing different weapon systems (torpedoes, rockets, bombs, shells) keep in mind that the actual percentage of explosive fillings varies substantially between different weapons. Bombs have a much larger part of their total mass as explosive charge than cannon projectiles.

A hangar in AHII needs 2781 lbs of bombs to be destroyed. That roughly translates into 1390lbs of actual explosives.
The same hangar can be killed by 18x 5"HVAR rockets, which gives each rocket a destructive power of ~156lbs "bomb-equivalents", which would indicate a explosive load of about 78lbs for a single rocket. Actual warhead weight of a 5" HVAR rocket was 55lbs TNT
But when shooting 75/76mm HE tank shells at it, you also need 18 shots to bring a hangar down, thus giving them also a "bomb-equivalent" of 156lbs. But actual explosive filling of a 76mm HE shell (Soviet 76.2-mm OF354) is only about 1.4lbs, not 78lbs!

This little example shows that cannon shells are way overpowered vs. structures when compared to bombs. (Though it mays have been made that way for gameplay reasons)



« Last Edit: February 29, 2008, 07:30:37 PM by Lusche »
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Offline moot

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« Reply #19 on: February 29, 2008, 07:33:26 PM »
I was about to say, it looks like it's a gameplay scaling.
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Offline Lusche

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« Reply #20 on: February 29, 2008, 07:36:58 PM »
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Originally posted by moot
I was about to say, it looks like it's a gameplay scaling.


Yup. If you change gun & cannon damage to the same level that bombs have, you could fire all day at a town with little effect.
And if you would adjust bomb damage to gun damage levels, a 1000lbs bomb would become a tactical nuke ;)
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Offline Baumer

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« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2008, 08:11:40 PM »
Lusche,
Let me try and make my point more clearly.

I think the 5" guns, firing HE rounds, on the Cruiser and Carrier are "weak" with the current model.

I was comparing the 75mm cannon on the B-25H to the 5" gun in the carrier. I was not comparing them to the 5" HVAR rockets that Stoney brought up. I can see Stoney's point, in that the HVAR is on the weapons table and the warhead was originally from a 5" gun.

If you look at the chart on the trainers site you'll see that the 5" and 8" Naval Guns are missing.


5" ammunition data
The 5" Mk35 Mod 1-12 (AA) shell had a weight of 55.18lbs (25 Kg) with an explosive charge weighing 7.25lbs (3.3Kg).

The 5" Mk32 common (HE) shell had a weight of 54.0lbs (25.4 Kg) with an explosive charge weighing 2.58lbs (1.2 Kg)

Either the Mk32 or Mk 35 rounds traveling at 2,500fps (762 m/s) are much more powerful than the round from the 75mm cannon.

If the 5" and 8" guns are under modeled to keep the game balanced that's fine. It just seemed odd to sink a cruiser with fewer rounds from a B-25 than from a 5" gun.
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Offline Lusche

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« Reply #22 on: February 29, 2008, 08:26:40 PM »
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Originally posted by Baumer
Lusche,
Let me try and make my point more clearly.


There was no need to, I already understood it the first time ;)

Quote
Originally posted by Baumer
If you look at the chart on the trainers site you'll see that the 5" and 8" Naval Guns are missing.


That's why I did my own testing on the 5" for that chart.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2008, 08:28:44 PM by Lusche »
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Offline Baumer

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« Reply #23 on: February 29, 2008, 09:05:32 PM »
Lusche,
I'm sorry, I misunderstood you then.

In your testing, how many 5" rounds were needed to destroy a hanger? At what range were you firing from?

I had done all my 5" test firing from the carrier to the cruiser so I could get repeatable results. I had not been comparing to a hanger destruction due to the fact that the ships won't stop moving.  :)

Guess I need to figure out how to drop the anchor! :D
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Offline Lusche

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« Reply #24 on: February 29, 2008, 09:15:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Baumer
Lusche,
I'm sorry, I misunderstood you then.

In your testing, how many 5" rounds were needed to destroy a hanger? At what range were you firing from?
:D


I tested the CV 5 inch on the task group's own destroyers.
Needed either 12 shots HE or 17 shots AA.
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