Running Graphics cards in SLI

[MrRiplEy[H]]

IMO sli is a huge waste of money. If you SLI two new cards, you're going to pay a HUGE premium for a small fps increase.

If you SLI two old cards, you're going to waste half the price of a better, next generation card in order to get another old card which will most likely be slower in the end - and then you have two real old cards in your hands with zero resell value.

That alone is a bad deal but when you add that to the fact that SLI profiles aren't even available for all the titles - it turns worse.

I've found that the best way to purchase hardware is to be patient, keep an eye on hardware news and pick the next new generation leap even if it costs a bit. For example when Geforce256 came to the market it seemed ridiculously expensive but fast. I droped the cash for it and it proved to be an excellent buy - games were lightning fast at start and even 3 years later I could still play latest titles with it. If you SLI a slower card you're going to have a mediocre at best performance first with the single card, then suffer almost unplayable fps, then update back to mediocre fps and soon suffer unplayable fps again.

[alskahawk]

IMO sli is a huge waste of money. If you SLI two new cards, you're going to pay a HUGE premium for a small fps increase.

If you SLI two old cards, you're going to waste half the price of a better, next generation card in order to get another old card which will most likely be slower in the end - and then you have two real old cards in your hands with zero resell value.

That alone is a bad deal but when you add that to the fact that SLI profiles aren't even available for all the titles - it turns worse.

I've found that the best way to purchase hardware is to be patient, keep an eye on hardware news and pick the next new generation leap even if it costs a bit. For example when Geforce256 came to the market it seemed ridiculously expensive but fast. I droped the cash for it and it proved to be an excellent buy - games were lightning fast at start and even 3 years later I could still play latest titles with it. If you SLI a slower card you're going to have a mediocre at best performance first with the single card, then suffer almost unplayable fps, then update back to mediocre fps and soon suffer unplayable fps again.

 250+ FPS in SLI in AH. 60-100 single card. 8800GTXs. Not a small increase. In graphic intensive games its even more noticible.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

250+ FPS in SLI in AH. 60-100 single card. 8800GTXs. Not a small increase. In graphic intensive games its even more noticible.

Umm SLI shouldn't even theoretically increase your FPS more than 40% in the best case scenario. There's something fishy there. A single 8800GTX should get much higher fps than 100 in AHII, even midpriced cards get 100fps easy with vsync off.

I just tested AHII with 1680x1050x32 1024 textures and all sliders to max settings, 156fps in tower using a SINGLE 8800GTS 640mb (older/slower) model. In flight still over 135fps. So a single GTX should do 200fps easily.

[Skuzzy]

If your are running Aces High II with vertical sync disabled, then you are asking for troubles.  SLI will never be a bang-for-the-buck solution.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

If your are running Aces High II with vertical sync disabled, then you are asking for troubles.  SLI will never be a bang-for-the-buck solution.

I concur fully. Vsync should be disabled only for benchmarking and enabled always for gaming. Best is to set the driver to 'force vsync on' setting. One should note, however, that if vsync is on you should also enable triple buffering. Otherwise your fps will be cut to half after a certain limit.

[alskahawk]

Umm SLI shouldn't even theoretically increase your FPS more than 40% in the best case scenario. There's something fishy there. A single 8800GTX should get much higher fps than 100 in AHII, even midpriced cards get 100fps easy with vsync off.

I just tested AHII with 1680x1050x32 1024 textures and all sliders to max settings, 156fps in tower using a SINGLE 8800GTS 640mb (older/slower) model. In flight still over 135fps. So a single GTX should do 200fps easily.

 With various single cards I get around 60FPS. Including a 8800 GTX. With my current setup 1-PNY 8800GTS 340mb video card I run right at 60 FPS. This is with a 24 inch monitor. With stock settings nothing adjusted. With 2-8800GTXs I run average 250FPS. With only SLI enabled. I don't run with Vsync or any other setting turned off. In Call of Duty with SLI there is a noticible visual quality difference.
 

[MrRiplEy[H]]

With various single cards I get around 60FPS. Including a 8800 GTX. With my current setup 1-PNY 8800GTS 340mb video card I run right at 60 FPS. This is with a 24 inch monitor. With stock settings nothing adjusted. With 2-8800GTXs I run average 250FPS. With only SLI enabled. I don't run with Vsync or any other setting turned off. In Call of Duty with SLI there is a noticible visual quality difference.
 

Well if you run a single 320mb GTS at high resolutions it's most likely that you're getting a heavy hit to fps because your displaymemory is exhausted. Which resolution/textures/FSAA are you running at? The 320mb on the 8800 just isn't enough for high res gaming. If I get over double fps on the similar 8800 with double memory, it's most likely the cause of the problem instead of SLI being so much more powerful.

And btw if you run with vsync on, you're never going to see fps over 60 on flat panels. Not if you run GTS, GTX or Ultra in SLI. Your fps will rise only with vsync off - maybe vsync is disabled in SLI mode? That might explain the big difference. In any case SLI documentation itself doesn't promise doubling of speed, not even near it.

Edit: quick googling shows that many users have had issues with vsync getting disabled when running SLI so that's probably why you saw the difference in fps. It's not real.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Right now is actually one of the only times when SLI makes sense. There are new generation of 9600 GT OC cards available for $150 a piece that can outperform a 8800 GTX when in SLI. That situation will quickly disappear once 9700/9800/9900 will be introduced making the dual 9600 a bad deal again.

But right now IF you own a SLI capable motherboard and capable power supply, you can build a SLI 9600 system for $300 where you need to pay $358 for a single 8800GTX. So by using SLI you can save 50 bucks and get a comparable performance setup.

But as said, once the rest of the 9xxx series will be released, that SLI will be a waste of money bang for buck wise.

[LePaul]

alaska, Im not questioning your claims...but I would love to see screenshots.

Especially near ground battles and CVs

That's where I take my hugest hits...anywhere near furball island.  Or, when trying to attack GVs.

I'm drooling for a new system...and SLI sounds appealing.  But I'm questioning the best value/best performance.

[alskahawk]

alaska, Im not questioning your claims...but I would love to see screenshots.
Especially near ground battles and CVs
That's where I take my hugest hits...anywhere near furball island.  Or, when trying to attack GVs.
I'm drooling for a new system...and SLI sounds appealing.  But I'm questioning the best value/best performance.

 I took a couple of quick screen shots just before I tore the system apart. I think one of them is over 300FPS SLI and the other is about 60FPS (single card) on a 24 inch monitor (set to normal res 1900?).  I am on the road right now and will post them this weekend.
 I went from this system; Ultra aluminum full tower case, Asus M2N Deluxe SLI(1 PCIx16 1PCIx8), 3.2GHZ AMD x2, 2GB Kingston Ram, 2-8800GTX Video cards, 150GB 10K Raptor HD, Water cooling, 750 watt PS.
 I then swapped out these components. PNY 8800GTS 340MB VC, 2GB PNY ram, Antec 900 case, Thermaltake cpu fan. I had heat problems, too little PSU and now I have a solid simple AH dedicated machine. 35*C under load. (this thread has gone on so long I don't even have the machine I started with..lol)
 I used the 8800GTX's on a new Intel quad system. I haven't run any tests with it. 

[alskahawk]

 Heres a question I have for all those who don't believe in SLI. If SLI is just marketing etc.

1. Why are all the system reviewers in all the magazines giving SLI computer systems high marks.

2. Why do all the benchmarks (used by the same reviewers the magazines) show SLI systems beating single systems?

3. Why are all the top gaming computer companies such as Falcon NW etc using SLI as their top systems?

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Heres a question I have for all those who don't believe in SLI. If SLI is just marketing etc.

1. Why are all the system reviewers in all the magazines giving SLI computer systems high marks.

2. Why do all the benchmarks (used by the same reviewers the magazines) show SLI systems beating single systems?

3. Why are all the top gaming computer companies such as Falcon NW etc using SLI as their top systems?

1: Because SLI obviously improves performance but since it doesn't work on all titles and gets outperformed by the next gen card anyway it's not that much value in the end. I wouldn't want two lower end cards for the price of one high-end one.

2: Because SLI systems beat single systems but rarely manage to do so for less money. They're not a miracle solution that would give you a GTX for half the price - before GT/9600 you had to pay more to get similar performance. Right now SLI works only because the higher end new generation hasn't been yet released because the market lacks competition as ATI can't compete with Nvidia at the moment. Nvidia could release the 9800 if it wanted.

3: You need to use SLI on a TOP system because two 8800 ultras in SLI will beat a single card. Even though it ends up costing ludicrously much.

Yet when 9800 comes out it will wash the table with the sli 8800. So it's better to be patient than waste money on old gen cards right now.

And once more, the difference you're seeing is because your single card setup is running vsync on (limited to 60fps) and your SLI setup is not using vsync (NOT limited to 60fps) thus giving a huge leap in fps. Your single card could do 200 fps if you disabled vsync.

[Wingnutt]

You spend 2x as much (or MORE, for the motherboard) for a small extra % of FPS.

It's not worth it. The efficiency just isn't there, and it's like welding 2 cars together side by side, expecting them to go 2x as fast. Well, for the most part they're going to almost perform the same as a single car.


SLI is only for folks with far too much money and who savor/crave the difference between 250fps and 260fps.

this pretty much answers it..

for what you pay for any set of cards to run SLI, you could spend less on a single more powerful card and get much more performance output.

[alskahawk]

Benchmark; 3dmark06; 13166
 Not a great score but respectable. Stock settings quad SLI system. My single 8800GTS 340MB system; 8400. 

    I don't think either Krusty or MrRiply(H) have a SLI system. I have two of them. SLI isn't for everyone.  Economics; There's a racing Axum; How fast do you want to go? How much money you got? Could be a computer reference. How much flogging can you do on that AGP horse before it dies? Single card systems are the same way. Tweaking will get you a long way and is an excellent way to learn about computers or to make up for the lack of bucks. The above system referenced cost about $2200(approx). Now if I tweak it...

   If you need a lot of graphic power or you like playing new games on the top settings go SLI. But like everything there are pitfalls. More parts, more chance of failure, More parts, more power required. Motherboard choice is more critical. Computer case choice is more critical, Cooling more of a factor. You will only have one or two PCI slots left after you SLI. Is a 8800GTX SLI system outrageous at $2200? Hardly a high end price. Specs; Intel Quad 2.4, XFX MB, 8800GTX x2, 4GB Ram(I used 6GB on test) 1000Watt PSU, Full tower Case, 7.2 WD HD x2, Windows XP Pro x64 

Earlier in the week I posted 3 questions; My response is denoted with; a
here's the answers posted by Mr Ripley(H)

Question; Why do all the reviewers in all the magazines giving SLI computer systems high marks. (I gots bad grammar)

 Because SLI obviously improves performance but since it doesn't work on all titles and gets outperformed by the next gen card anyway it's not that much value in the end. I wouldn't want two lower end cards for the price of one high-end one.
 a; A SLI system will outperform a single card system. Maybe not always the best economical solution but a performance reality. Computer parts are always competing against the next generation. Like a reference to Hollywood "they eat their young".  Computers are the same way. SLI has been out a couple of years now. Its hardly new. Buy computer stuff like a new car. Wait till December. My system is last years tech. Works good.

Question; Why do all the benchmarks (used by the same reviewers the magazines) show SLI systems beating single systems?

2: Because SLI systems beat single systems but rarely manage to do so for less money. They're not a miracle solution that would give you a GTX for half the price - before GT/9600 you had to pay more to get similar performance. Right now SLI works only because the higher end new generation hasn't been yet released because the market lacks competition as ATI can't compete with Nvidia at the moment. Nvidia could release the 9800 if it wanted.
 a.  A SLI system is faster than a single card system. You really didn't answer the question; So response to your response; Economics and speed. In some ways we are saying the same thing. Bear in mind for most of us this is a hobby. Hobbies are rarely rational.  I posted this a while back; If two cards are going to cost you x amount. Then buy a single card for x amount. How would 2-9600 GTs do against a single 9600GT? Or two 9800s?

Question;Why are all the top gaming computer companies such as Falcon NW etc using SLI as their top systems?

3: You need to use SLI on a TOP system because two 8800 ultras in SLI will beat a single card. Even though it ends up costing ludicrously much.
a. Performance sells. The market sets the price. But I am confident that I can build a comparable system for a lot less than $8,000. And if it breaks I can fix it. 

 I think we have beaten this SLI horse to death. So I am going to post some screen shots from my old system and that will be my last comment on it. (I'll be nice and not post the AH 727FR (spike)i got with the quad system)


 Note; 2 cars next to each other; slower, more drag. But if you lengthened the bodies and....  2 engines in one car. faster until....


 
 

[MrRiplEy[H]]

You should realize that it's pretty dumb to pay the price of a 8800 ultra to get a 8800gtx performance using two mid-price cards in SLI.

This is the point - I'd prefer to get the ultra instead. Right now I'd wait for the 9800 to be released before doing anything. It will most likely blow away the competition.

Your quad-SLI system just barely beats a single GTS despite being full four times more expensive. You'd be way better off buying one 8800 ultra or wait for the 9800. With the quad system your individual card gets degraded to 3291 points per card, that's a full 60% decrease in value for money. Reversed it means you're paying double money to get the performance of a single higher end card.

A very VERY bad deal.