Author Topic: Who'da thunk? Guns best crime deterrent after all  (Read 2673 times)

Offline Curval

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Who'da thunk? Guns best crime deterrent after all
« Reply #75 on: March 04, 2008, 04:33:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
The Bill of Rights as a whole is something some of us hold very dear Curval. An attack on one part is no different than an attack on another part. The Bill of Rights itself is being attacked and eroded in both cases.


I didn't see you objecting to this:

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/02/cayman-island-b.html

A Cayman Islands Bank got a US site taken down, with the blessing of a US court.

Logically you should be typing an email to your congressman to complain about this.  Afterall, it is a clear attack on the site's 1st Amendment rights, which is exactly the same as someone trying to take your guns away.

Right?
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Offline Charon

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Who'da thunk? Guns best crime deterrent after all
« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2008, 04:44:10 PM »
The point is, in response to your insulting dig I am not paranoid about losing my rights because where I live I have already lost rights that most people enjoy in the US, because the leader of a local political machine -- the Mayor of a single city i cannot vote out of office -- has enough control over the County I live in to take those rights away by controlling who gets elected to the county board for Chicago's many districts.

The last piece was simply an example of why I care about diluting that right for people who might not be appreciative of the 2nd but still respect the 1st. You keep projecting complex **** onto things that are complex, like using a simple analogy for a concern of mine that people with a similar concern for another part of the Bill of Rights might appreciate if the show were on the other foot. Was anyone else confused? Let's look at it again:

Quote
So yeah. I guess I am being paranoid about the ability for me to become a felon overnight and lose rights that people living in every state around me and most states in the US freely enjoy, because the mayor needs a scape goat for his failed leadership and the failed social policies of the 1960s.

It would be like waking up and finding you can't post on message boards in your state because some pedophiles use them to troll for victims and we need "sensible speech control."


Note the: It would be like...

Quote
Analogy is both the cognitive process of transferring information from a particular subject (the analogue or source) to another particular subject (the target), and a linguistic expression corresponding to such a process. In a narrower sense, analogy is an inference or an argument from a particular to another particular, as opposed to deduction, induction, and abduction, where at least one of the premises or the conclusion is general. The word analogy can also refer to the relation between the source and the target themselves, which is often, though not necessarily, a similarity, as in the biological notion of analogy.

Niels Bohr's model of the atom made an analogy between the atom and the solar system.

Analogy plays a significant role in problem solving, decision making, perception, memory, creativity, emotion, explanation and communication. It lies behind basic tasks such as the identification of places, objects and people, for example, in face perception and facial recognition systems. It has been argued that analogy is "the core of cognition" (Hofstadter in Gentner et al. 2001).

Specific analogical language comprises exemplification, comparisons, metaphors, similes, allegories, and parables, but not metonymy. Phrases like and so on, and the like, as if, and the very word like also rely on an analogical understanding by the receiver of a message including them.

Analogy is important not only in ordinary language and common sense, where proverbs and idioms give many examples of its application, but also in science, philosophy and the humanities. The concepts of association, comparison, correspondence, mathematical and morphological homology, homomorphism, iconicity, isomorphism, metaphor, resemblance, and similarity are closely related to analogy. In cognitive linguistics, the notion of conceptual metaphor may be equivalent to that of analogy.

Analogy has been studied and discussed since classical antiquity by philosophers, scientists and lawyers. The last few decades have shown a renewed interest in analogy, most notable in cognitive science.


As hard as this may be for you to believe, some of us feel just as strongly about the 2nd as the 1st. That is why I added that analogy. It is a real right to us, and it still has value for the very reason the framer included it. Another check on the govt. along with the separation of power among the executive, legislative and judicial branches. Along with the civilian control of the military. As well as the basic natural right to self defense.

I like to shoot, but that is not why I particularly care about the issue to the extent that I do.

Charon
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 04:56:50 PM by Charon »

Offline DieAz

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Who'da thunk? Guns best crime deterrent after all
« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2008, 04:48:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
I didn't see you objecting to this:

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/02/cayman-island-b.html

A Cayman Islands Bank got a US site taken down, with the blessing of a US court.

Logically you should be typing an email to your congressman to complain about this.  Afterall, it is a clear attack on the site's 1st Amendment rights, which is exactly the same as someone trying to take your guns away.

Right?


http://88.80.13.160/wiki/Wikileaks_victorious_over_Bank_Julius_Baer

Offline Charon

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Who'da thunk? Guns best crime deterrent after all
« Reply #78 on: March 04, 2008, 04:56:11 PM »
Quote
I didn't see you objecting to this:

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/20...n-island-b.html

A Cayman Islands Bank got a US site taken down, with the blessing of a US court.

Logically you should be typing an email to your congressman to complain about this. Afterall, it is a clear attack on the site's 1st Amendment rights, which is exactly the same as someone trying to take your guns away.

Right?


Absolutely Curval. And if the Judge had failed to do the proper, Constitutional thing it should have evoked a response of outrage. But, in this case the 1st was upheld as it should have been. I imagine groups like the ACLU would have been all over it though.

Charon

Offline midnight Target

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Who'da thunk? Guns best crime deterrent after all
« Reply #79 on: March 04, 2008, 05:16:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jackal1
I believe you have your spurs tangled up in your bloomers.........so to speak.


 


I don't think so pumpkin.

Offline Jackal1

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Who'da thunk? Guns best crime deterrent after all
« Reply #80 on: March 04, 2008, 06:03:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
I don't think so pumpkin.


OK..sweet cheeks. :)
You said....................
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No, what is strange and ironic is the ones who go gaga over gun ownership rights are usually the same ones who will happily give up their rights to privacy in the name of security.


Where are you coming up with this from then?
Myself and the majority of people who believe in the right to keep and bear arms are very strong believers in all personal rights , all personal freedoms and certainly believe in the right to privacy.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline midnight Target

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Who'da thunk? Guns best crime deterrent after all
« Reply #81 on: March 04, 2008, 08:17:18 PM »
I get that from the myriads of people like you who shout Patriot from the rooftops but are more than willing to allow wiretapping or intrusive government such as the recent wish to bypass the FISA court by Bush etal. because you "have nothing to hide" or because "if you're not a terrorist you have nothing to worry about".

sound familiar?

Offline Jackal1

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Who'da thunk? Guns best crime deterrent after all
« Reply #82 on: March 04, 2008, 09:00:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
I get that from the myriads of people like you who shout Patriot from the rooftops but are more than willing to allow wiretapping or intrusive government such as the recent wish to bypass the FISA court by Bush etal. because you "have nothing to hide" or because "if you're not a terrorist you have nothing to worry about".

sound familiar?


Did have a recent fall that resulted in a severe head injury?
Man, have you dialed a wrong number with me. :rofl
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Curval

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Re: Who'da thunk? Guns best crime deterrent after all
« Reply #83 on: March 06, 2008, 01:43:25 PM »
Well, if I am wrong...I'm wrong, and will admit it:

http://www.physorg.com/news123957389.html

Pawned myself using that example.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline midnight Target

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Re: Who'da thunk? Guns best crime deterrent after all
« Reply #84 on: March 06, 2008, 01:51:10 PM »


Did have a recent fall that resulted in a severe head injury?
Man, have you dialed a wrong number with me. :rofl

If you don't fall into that catagory, I give you special dispensation to ignore my post.


Offline Jackal1

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Re: Who'da thunk? Guns best crime deterrent after all
« Reply #85 on: March 06, 2008, 01:56:58 PM »
If you don't fall into that catagory, I give you special dispensation to ignore my post.



<shrug>
Guess I can assume you are not going to answer.
What myriads?
Where?


Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Elfie

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Re: Who'da thunk? Guns best crime deterrent after all
« Reply #86 on: March 06, 2008, 02:04:49 PM »


I didn't see you objecting to this:

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/02/cayman-island-b.html

A Cayman Islands Bank got a US site taken down, with the blessing of a US court.

Logically you should be typing an email to your congressman to complain about this.  Afterall, it is a clear attack on the site's 1st Amendment rights, which is exactly the same as someone trying to take your guns away.

Right?

Since I had no idea this had happened, no I didn't experience any outrage over this event. Since this issue has since been rectified by the same judge that screwed the pooch in the first place, I see no need to feel any sense of outrage at this time.

In regards to the part of the quote in bold, it is only the same in that both things are attacks on rights that are guaranteed in the Bill of Rights.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Elfie

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Re: Who'da thunk? Guns best crime deterrent after all
« Reply #87 on: March 06, 2008, 02:08:29 PM »
Well, if I am wrong...I'm wrong, and will admit it:

http://www.physorg.com/news123957389.html

Pawned myself using that example.

 :D

I was really tempted to mention something about that in my last post, but somehow managed to refrain. :D
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline lazs2

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Re: Who'da thunk? Guns best crime deterrent after all
« Reply #88 on: March 06, 2008, 02:28:23 PM »
mt and curval... I think it is right to point out that you guys are the ones being hypocrites here..  at the least, in my case.

I have always championed individual rights and freedom while you are the ones who pick and choose.

I say that invasions of privacy are wrong.. even forcing one to wear a helmet or seatbelt are wrong.. all but minimal taxes are wrong.. 

this is consistent with me saying that taking away my right to keep and bear arms is wrong.

you two.. on the other hand.. seem to feel that rights are only rights so long as they are ones you like.

lazs

Offline Curval

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Re: Who'da thunk? Guns best crime deterrent after all
« Reply #89 on: March 06, 2008, 02:34:22 PM »
Well, to be honest I had only heard about the Cayman thing from another blog.  Then when I saw the judge reverse his decision in another post over there I was like "DOH.  I gotta eat some crow on this one."  Then the AHBBS went down.  But, even though this was buried on page 2 when this site came back up I bumped it with my post...

None of it changes my views on thinking that guns should be made freely available here though.  

Also, methinks Charon needs to "grow a pair" though.  He felt insulted by something I said...I think about the paranoid remark.  After all the abuse hurled my way on this particular issue I find that funny.



Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain