worlds smallest working gun.

[C(Sea)Bass]

Is anyone else concerned that traffic is even trying to get up rips butt?

I'm more concerned about the vehicles exiting his butt. Adds a whole new meaning to skidmarks in the undies.

[SIG220]

(Image removed from quote.)
can conceal this puppy anywhere.

I was going to say something about the crack of ones arse but decided against it.   oooooppps guess I said it anyhow.

A much more practical solution is Ruger's brand new LCP, which just started reaching dealer shelves this week.   It is the first handgun in history to ship with a trigger lock that is both bigger and heavier than the entire gun itself, as you can see in this photo:





It makes for a very small, but effective package.  Unloaded, it only weighs 9 oz:






Compare it here to a small 5 shot Smith and Wesson snubnose .38 in size:

[Latrobe]

(Image removed from quote.)
can conceal this puppy anywhere.

I was going to say something about the crack of ones arse but decided against it.   oooooppps guess I said it anyhow.

Freeze! or I'll shot! It probly won't kill or wound you, probly won't even sting but it'll be slightly unplesant. Bet that thing can't even shoot through plastic.

[BBBB]

A much more practical solution is Ruger's brand new LCP, which just started reaching dealer shelves this week.   It is the first handgun in history to ship with a trigger lock that is both bigger and heavier than the entire gun itself, as you can see in this photo:




It makes for a very small, but effective package.  Unloaded, it only weighs 9 oz:






Compare it here to a small 5 shot Smith and Wesson snubnose .38 in size:

 Damn thats small. In the summer here I carry a little S&W 360PD for concealed carry. I question the reliability of that little .380. It kind of reminds me of a Kel-tec, it looks a lot like one.

 I looked it up while I was writing this, 330$'s thats not to bad for a little pocket pistol.  I watched the video, they sold me. It seems as if reliability is sound. I am going to pick one up. Like the video said, not to replace my 360PD or my Sig 229 9mm I carry the rest of the year, but as my "go to the store and walk the dog" pistol. Thanks for the heads up 220. 

http://www.ruger.com/LCP/Video.html

[lazs2]

sig..  I have a scandium 340 pd like the 38 special you show next to the little ruger.. mine weighs 12 oz and is smaller than the gun you show since I have wood undercover grips on it.   

the main difference between the ruger and it is that mine has 3 times the power of the ruger.   with 125 grain federal hollow points it is a proven manstopper while the .380 has been proven to be lacking in power.  the revolver is reliable with all ammo and the drill for a dud round is.... pull the trigger again.    It has a shrouded hammer and can even be fired from inside of a pocket. 

the drill for making it ready to fire and fire is...  pull the trigger (squeeze for you purists).    I can hit man sized targets at 50 yards with the PD but...

It is a whole new world of recoil.   after it saves your life your hand will sting for a few days.

lazs

[BBBB]

sig..  I have a scandium 340 pd like the 38 special you show next to the little ruger.. mine weighs 12 oz and is smaller than the gun you show since I have wood undercover grips on it.   

the main difference between the ruger and it is that mine has 3 times the power of the ruger.   with 125 grain federal hollow points it is a proven manstopper while the .380 has been proven to be lacking in power.  the revolver is reliable with all ammo and the drill for a dud round is.... pull the trigger again.    It has a shrouded hammer and can even be fired from inside of a pocket. 

the drill for making it ready to fire and fire is...  pull the trigger (squeeze for you purists).    I can hit man sized targets at 50 yards with the PD but...

It is a whole new world of recoil.   after it saves your life your hand will sting for a few days.

lazs

 I have never had a problem with the small sub rounds like .380 and pocket pistols are just to stop a threat. Even so, seven rounds of .380 going in the bad guys direction is going to get results. Most likely the bad guy, if not hit is going to turn tail and run. If he is hit, while he might not roll over dead right there on the spot, he will be leaving the area and is in a heap of trouble as those light little rounds have a habit of playing pinball with your insides.

 For me the idea is not to kill the bad guy, it is to simply survive the situation. I could care less if the bad guy runs off into the night, falls over dead, or dies three days later from internal bleeding. As long as I survive and get to go home to my family I am happy with the end result.

 I keep 38 +P rounds in my 360. I can carry .357s, but the recoil is so bad, quick follow up shots are tough on the hands. I think the only reason I would every carry .357s in my 360 is if I need to knock someone out, make them deaf, blind and set them on fire. Because the noise, concussion and fireball that comes out of that little gun when it is loaded up with .357s reminds me of the noisy cricket from MiB.

 I think that little Ruger has potential. I have been looking into them today and so far I have yet to read a bad review. Reliably seems to be really good. I plan on getting one, like I said before, not to replace my little 360, but to have as a quick pocket pistol when I need to make that late night trip to the store and all I have on is athletic pants and a t-shirt. Nobody is going to notice that little slim pocket pistol stashed in my pocket and I have no reservations about the .380 round.

[Slamfire]

So what happened to carbon fiber projectile launchers that used carbon fiber sabbot darts with electrical fired sold propellant bases? I thought those could be broken down and the parts not recognised in your carry on along with the batteries installed in your camera or game boy?

Wasent a prototype produced by a german firm and congress lost its mind over that some years back?

H&K P11 ?

[Slamfire]

sig..  I have a scandium 340 pd like the 38 special you show next to the little ruger.. mine weighs 12 oz and is smaller than the gun you show since I have wood undercover grips on it.   

the main difference between the ruger and it is that mine has 3 times the power of the ruger.   with 125 grain federal hollow points it is a proven manstopper while the .380 has been proven to be lacking in power.  the revolver is reliable with all ammo and the drill for a dud round is.... pull the trigger again.    It has a shrouded hammer and can even be fired from inside of a pocket. 

the drill for making it ready to fire and fire is...  pull the trigger (squeeze for you purists).    I can hit man sized targets at 50 yards with the PD but...

It is a whole new world of recoil.   after it saves your life your hand will sting for a few days.

lazs

I have a S&W 442 - a small "hammerless" 5 shot pocket revolver in .38spc+P (in black colored scandium).  Love that little pistol - you can carry it in jeans pockets without fear of it "printing" through the material, and it hits like a sledgehammer.

I fired 100 +P rounds through it the first time I took it to the range - my palm "grew" a swollen red bar of flesh for about 3-5 days - I remember having great difficulty changing gears in my car 

Slamfire

[BBBB]

Those little Smiths will do that to you. Even with standard 38 loads it can be tough on the hands.

[Shuffler]

I just can't carry a little 38. Seen it used to little effect too many times. Better than nothing though.

[JBA]

It's a remarkable feat of engineering. Must have been a fine jeweler to put that together.

[BBBB]

I just can't carry a little 38. Seen it used to little effect too many times. Better than nothing though.

 So how many shoot outs have you seen then? 

 The .38 is fine. I still carry a 9mm, even though the macho types at the range and gun store want everyone to think that if it ain't a 45 then it ain't nothing. It is all about shot placement. You can have the deadliest bullet in the world and it is totally useless if you can't hit what you are aiming at or you hit someone in the arm, leg, ect.

 The key word is shot placement, if you hit the CT with a 125 gr 38 + P JHP of just about any brand you are going to get results. Same goes for 9mm. I like the lighter rounds, I can pop quick follow up shots without having to look though a giant fireball and huge muzzle rise throwing my site picture off.

 No matter what you use, you need to train with it, then train some more and when you have done that, train some more still. The motto is; "Train to fight, fight to live". Bad training methods have more to do with being killed in a gun fight then the caliber chosen.

 After the 1986 Miami shoot out everyone was quick to dismiss the 9mm and 38 calibers as obsolete and under powered. When in reality it was poor training that had more to do with the failure than anything else. One thing that stuck out in my mind after reading the AAR from that shooting where the empty shell casings found in the pocket and in the hand of one of the agents killed. This points to a bad range habit. At a lot of police ranges and most any range you go to you have to "police" your own brass. A lot of guys who shoot wheel guns have the habit of dumping the empty brass into their hand so that they do not have to pick it up later.

 Fast forward to the shooting and here is this habit popping up on the street. Now you have an agent unloading his spent brass into one hand and dropping it into his pocket mixed in with good rounds. This is a mistake that can easily get you killed. I am not saying that it did, but it points to a "software" problem and not a "hardware" issue.

 Most people who have been in a shooting say that everything shuts down for them. Everything becomes muscle memory. They operate on a sort of auto pilot if you will. Things become automatic and habits of training pop up. That can be a plus or a negtive depending on luck and how well you have trained to fight for your life.

 So when it comes to questing calibers I have none. I question weapon reliability, function and performance. I will leave my survival up to me to decide, not the caliber I choose. Better software, not hardware wins the day.

 A great read about the 1986 Miami shoot out. http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs7.htm

 As for this tiny gun. It is neat, but there is no way that thing would ever be practical. It would make a neat piece of jewelry though..

 

[AquaShrimp]

Excellent post BBBB, especially about muscle memory and training.

[SD67]

Nice post BBBB, one of the best firearms related posts I've seen on this BBS to date.

[lazs2]

bbbb...  I watched a 38 bounce off a guys head.   it was pretty darn good shot placement too since it hit him about an inch and a half above his eyebrow.   the guy who was shot then broke a 30-30 rifle by hitting the attacker with it.   

I have hit jackrabits with 3 hollow point .380's beretta with a  4" barrel (way more velocity than the ruger) and watched em run away.

While I agree that killing the attacker is not the idea.. I think that stopping him from continued aggression is of the utmost importance.   and.. the closer the attacker the more important it is.  Any gun is better than no gun but putting 6 or seven fatal shots into someone and the having them club you to death or stab you to death before they crawl off to die is not my idea of a win.

the 340PD with .357 mag. 125 federals is simply the best round I can carry in a small package.   I will soak my hand latter.   shot placement is no problem.. at arms length obviously...  farther than that... no problem up to about 25 yards.. after that.. why the hell am I shooting at someone?   and.. if I have to.. why am I not using the handgun to keep his head down till I can get to a rifle or shotgun?

I have a makarov that I trust.. a tiny bit more power than a .380.. lots more than a 2" .380..  I also have a walther PPK in .32  I am not unarmed with them but.. they are not confidence inspiring.

I also like the reliability of not only the stopping power but the revolver.. I like that I can simply pull the trigger again if the round is a dud.  double action autos allow you to do this but.. only on the round in the chamber.. if the primer was bad... you can pull the trigger till hell freezes over.

To me.. the J frame smiths are the right size.. not so small that they are hard to draw or turn around in the pocket but.. not so big that they print on the clothes if you have a desanitis or such pocket holster.

They can also be fired if they are pressed against an attacker.. one dirty little secret of semiautos is that if you press them into someones body.. it probly won't fire... you will have moved the slide out of battery enough for the semiauto to not fire.

For full size handguns.. anything will do but I like 44 mag and 45 auto and 45 colt.   My cut down ruger redhawk (4") in 44 mag is brutal.. and reliable.   Hydroshocks in the 44 and 45 Kimber.   I have shot animals with these rounds and they work pretty well.

lazs