When is a HO not a HO?

[Ack-Ack]

But in the MA if i should die because i got HOŽd i allways blame myself for it, stupid of me to fly into his guns...right ?

Yep, just like it's stupid to cry "HO" when there isn't, especially when you're caught HOing yourself.


ack-ack

[BlauK]

Bungaroo,
you don't back your argument with any facts or reasons. Green won't be red only because you say so. Or maybe it is to you, but to others you make no sense.

---

2bighorn,
I dont get what would be cheep and dirty in some belly shot? Where do you think they should shoot me at in that situation? If I get myself to the deck when against 3 faster and more agile planes I have made a stupid mistake and I am already as good as dead.
Or do you mean me shooting at them would be cheap? I should roll over and die without shooting at them?  I don't get it 

Yes, it does not require 2 guys to pull a trigger. everyone has a trigger of their own. I honestly don't have a clue what you are trying to say. If I have a shot, I take it. Why on earth shouldn't I???

Are you trying to imply that shooting the enemy is cheap unless you have first tired him out and outmaneuvered him into a position where he cannot escape? You need to thoroughly humiliate them before you finish them? There are only a couple of planes you can use for that kind of fighting. Frankly, I hardly ever fly such planes. I more likely dispise them.

[SkyRock]

Im new here, and i really donŽt understand the fuss about "HO"
I aint that new to flying not to realize how dangerous it is to be in front of guns solution.
So howcome you expect to be safe when facing those guns ?
ShouldnŽt you maneuver to avoid guns solutions at all times ?

DA "Gentlemen with white gloves" and all that honory thing is totally different in my opinion, i wellcome that "first merge HO no shots" rule as courtesy to the opponent.

But in the MA if i should die because i got HOŽd i allways blame myself for it, stupid of me to fly into his guns...right ?

I think you hear many of us down the peeps that constantly do it for a couple of reasons.  It's lame and gamey.  Even if you use the old, "They HO'd in WWII" argument, many of them stopped after the one time they did.......cause they died.  People who always go for the HO shot,(and don't be fooled, there is a lot of the community that do) are just being gamey twits!  Why continue to go for a shot(that actually puts you at a disadvantage if you miss), when you could maybe, just maybe, learn a manuver to beat the guy in a more dominating fashion, rather than some fairy/luck/BS/twit fashion?   

 

[2bighorn]

I don't get it 

Well, since you're one of those "smart" fliers, it really does not surprise me.

[BlauK]

When/if a "HO whiner" quits whining about HO:s when shot down, he may actually begin learning the moves. Maybe he will then also begin to find avoiding HOs as easy as killing those "constantly HOing types". Until he quit whining, he belongs to the same moderately skilled bunch

[BlauK]

Well, since you're one of those "smart" fliers, it really does not surprise me.

If you are as good in avoiding the HOs in game as you are in dodging this debate, you should have no problems

It is useless to continue the discussion when there is no logic on the other side 

[2bighorn]

It is useless to continue the discussion when there is no logic on the other side 

I wasn't here as long as you, but I have learned that HOers will always justify HOs with "it takes two to HO".
Similarly, cherry pickers and horde runners will justify their lack of guts with "smart flying" or with "plane makes me fly that way", or "it's a war".

No matter what you say, it's not always possible to avoid head on situation, especially when outnumbered.

It's a bad form when guys who have every possible advantage, taking cheap shots. It's even worse when HOers complain about being HOed when, clearly, they were not.

And the worse is, when few select vets defend behavior like this.

[SkyRock]

I wasn't here as long as you, but I have learned that HOers will always justify HOs with "it takes two to HO".
Similarly, cherry pickers and horde runners will justify their lack of guts with "smart flying" or with "plane makes me fly that way", or "it's a war".

No matter what you say, it's not always possible to avoid head on situation, especially when outnumbered.

It's a bad form when guys who have every possible advantage, taking cheap shots. It's even worse when HOers complain about being HOed when, clearly, they were not.

And the worse is, when few select vets defend behavior like this.

[Masherbrum]

I wasn't here as long as you, but I have learned that HOers will always justify HOs with "it takes two to HO".
Similarly, cherry pickers and horde runners will justify their lack of guts with "smart flying" or with "plane makes me fly that way", or "it's a war".

No matter what you say, it's not always possible to avoid head on situation, especially when outnumbered.

It's a bad form when guys who have every possible advantage, taking cheap shots. It's even worse when HOers complain about being HOed when, clearly, they were not.

And the worse is, when few select vets defend behavior like this.

Absolutely, unequivocally, one of the best posts I have ever read on these Boards.   <<S>> Bar

[BlauK]

Keep on suffering boys, because the HO will always be here whether you like it or not.
Get over it, and you'll have much more fun 

[Ack-Ack]

Keep on suffering boys, because the HO will always be here whether you like it or not.
Get over it, and you'll have much more fun 

Of course the HO will always be here, some people will always try to take the path of least resistance but that isn't the point of this thread.  It was me poking fun at a whiner whining about something that clearly wasn't while showing the whiner what a hypocrit he is for doing what he was whining about. 


ack-ack

[Cee64E]

    The head on has always mystified me in this simulation.  Why do people act as though this NEVER happened in real life?  I've watched several episodes of Dogfights where the REAL pilots speak of HO engagements.  My view is this, fly straight at me and you'll get 4 20mm and 2 30mm cannon from a fw190a8.  I promise.

  I've never understood all the screaming about this myself.  Not everyone is such a masterfull pilot that they can pass up a shot for one they prefer.  So you don't do Head-on, big fappin deal.  I'm not here to dance, I'm not here to do some air-ballet to display my skill.  I'm here to shoot down the other guy and anytime he gets in front of my guns I WILL FIRE.  Yes it happened in the real war.  Yes it was farging dangerous and scared the snot out of pilots thus engaged, but they still did it.  When you're in it for real, you NEVER pass up a shot unless you know it will get you killed, and even then you might still try it. (jug pilots knew they had that big engine to hide behind, for instance)  The object of air combat is to kill the other guy before he kills you.  Anything else is just showing off.
  I'm sure there are lots of folks who would disagree, you're entitled to your opinion.  This is mine.  I'm not a great stick (yet).  I get shot down a lot.  I stay up until I get shot down most of the time.  So if I shoot you down on a merge and blow holes in your front window, save the crying for someone else, or come get me back.

[SD67]

*ahem*
I'm SD67 and I used to be a HO dweeb.
I used to take the HO if it was offered but I grew out of it after dying too many times. Nowadays I try to modify my approach so the initial engagement is not a head on merge. Having said that, if I'm left with no other option and I see you inside 500yards in my gunsight I'm going to be pulling that trigger!

[Arlo]

Are you my ho? Am I yours? Why is this topic still whined about or defended? AHII is coded to allow HOs. HT could have elected to code in the "frontal cone bullet shield" like AW had (and bless AW) but he didn't. Has anyone whining about how skilless or unfair or wrong or infuriating HOs are ever once stopped to ask themselves why?

[Redd]

  I've never understood all the screaming about this myself.  Not everyone is such a masterfull pilot that they can pass up a shot for one they prefer.  So you don't do Head-on, big fappin deal.  I'm not here to dance, I'm not here to do some air-ballet to display my skill.  I'm here to shoot down the other guy and anytime he gets in front of my guns I WILL FIRE.  Yes it happened in the real war.  Yes it was farging dangerous and scared the snot out of pilots thus engaged, but they still did it.  When you're in it for real, you NEVER pass up a shot unless you know it will get you killed, and even then you might still try it. (jug pilots knew they had that big engine to hide behind, for instance)  The object of air combat is to kill the other guy before he kills you.  Anything else is just showing off.
  I'm sure there are lots of folks who would disagree, you're entitled to your opinion.  This is mine.  I'm not a great stick (yet).  I get shot down a lot.  I stay up until I get shot down most of the time.  So if I shoot you down on a merge and blow holes in your front window, save the crying for someone else, or come get me back.

Cee64

What a couple of the guys might trying to point out is that if you continue to take the HO shots you will remain "not a great stick and get shot down a lot" . While you are shooting on the merge (and most likely missing) , your opponent has already gained an unassailable position on your 6. When you begin to realise that taking a HO shot negates your opportunity to perform a position winning lead turn (which is basically the most important maneuver in a 1-1 dogfight)  you might then have a chance of becoming a good stick.  Try it - and then tell 10 friends