ADHD question.

[VonMessa]

I take it you didn't review any of the info I suggested.  The house resolution will, if it enters law, potentially make it illegal for you to purchase firearms. 

Saying "I don't think I'll ever want to learn to fly a plane" isn't much of a response to the other stuff.  Is that really your strongest argument?

Finally, for reading comprehension, when I say it's crippling, I don't mean physically, obviously.  I mean it's potentially crippling to what you and your children will be able to do the rest of their lives because of, among other things, the law I mentioned that looks to strip 2nd amendment rights from people w/ ADHD.

Info duly reviewed:

United States Code - Title 18 - Chapter 44 SubSection 922 (unlawful acts)

(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;
to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

This is to prevent Virginia Tech type incidences where a known and documented, mentally defective, or institutionalized person would have quick or any access to a firearm.

Short of having a pissing contest.....

Where can you show me that ADD is a mental defect or that ADD is singled out in this bill?  ADD is categorized as a physical, neurological condition, more akin to epilepsy than mental illness.  Also, since I have never, in a court of law or otherwise, been "adjudicated as a mental defective" or one who has been committed to a "mental institution", then my kids and I should be safe in our 2nd amendment rights.. 

The first (Brady-bill) inspired version of this bill (which you may have been referring to) could mean anyone at all including some people that post on these boards.  This first version was defeated.

The newer and thankfully amended version of this bill uses the phrases "adjudication as a mental defective" and "committed to a mental institution"  that now refer to a real court with due process intact and certifiable mental cases. In the prior Brady-approved version, almost anyone could inflict legal sanctions on you with virtually no controls or redress.   


To answer your question, yes, that is indeed my best argument for flying an aircraft.  I'll take your word as I do not know the FAA rules.   Besides I probably couldn't afford it, that $14.95 a month is killing me.  If my kids lives are ruined  by this, I'll have to bear that load, I guess.  Am I to make my kids suffer, and deny a problem so they can fly a plane, or drive a truck for a living while suffering through school?

Thirdly, my reading comprehension is quite well, thank you.  I was being  tongue-in-cheek.   I'll make sure that I am more obvious about it the next time.

[Masherbrum]

Don't bother talking about this Chairboy.   He continually recites this crap, even though he was asked a similar question in a previous thread.   

[VonMessa]

But I thought you fed upon it? 

[Bodhi]

My ex-wife is a PhD Psychologist that specializes in ADD, AD/HD, and Anxiety disorders in children to young adults.

It was her point of view and the subject of much of her studies that ADD and AD/HD were the most misdiagnosed of all mental problems.  Her studies of her patients showed that on the order of 95% actually just needed structure and consequences in their lives and their behavior would change to that of someone not diagnosed.  The ones with true problems turned out to mostly be anxiety disorders, and with treatment in dealing with their anxieties they (the patient) could overcome these difficulties and live a normal life. 

She went on to do a study that compared the increasing use of non parental aids (mostly television and video games) as parenting tools of today to the times when parents actually were parents as being the root of most of these new diagnosis of ADD and AD/HD.

While I did not get along with her as a whole, I do highly respect her dedication and work in her chosen profession.  She is widely respected as a leading Doctor in the Psychological Field as an advocate of less medication and more hands on parental interaction with kids.

[VonMessa]

My ex-wife is a PhD Psychologist that specializes in ADD, AD/HD, and Anxiety disorders in children to young adults.

It was her point of view and the subject of much of her studies that ADD and AD/HD were the most misdiagnosed of all mental problems.  Her studies of her patients showed that on the order of 95% actually just needed structure and consequences in their lives and their behavior would change to that of someone not diagnosed.  The ones with true problems turned out to mostly be anxiety disorders, and with treatment in dealing with their anxieties they (the patient) could overcome these difficulties and live a normal life. 

She went on to do a study that compared the increasing use of non parental aids (mostly television and video games) as parenting tools of today to the times when parents actually were parents as being the root of most of these new diagnosis of ADD and AD/HD.

While I did not get along with her as a whole, I do highly respect her dedication and work in her chosen profession.  She is widely respected as a leading Doctor in the Psychological Field as an advocate of less medication and more hands on parental interaction with kids.

I must admit that I agree for the most part.  In my case I was raised mostly by my grandparents, who subscribed to the less TV, more hands on aspect because they were from that generation.  The only TV I really recall being allowed to watch until I was older was "The Dukes of Hazzard" on Friday nights.  Maybe the remaining percent do have an anxiety problem.  I am certainly not an expert.

I know plenty of people who DO rely on the TV and video game method, and whose idea of "taking care of the kids" is popping in a video so they are undisturbed while watching "the game" or whatever else on their own TV.  I would also agree with the fact that there is a trend of less discipline.  I know that I have been accused of having an almost stifling method of running my household.  This is probably attributed to the way I was raised, in addition to, my own military background.  It seems to work as part of the big picture.  I try to implement a strict schedule with regard to wake up, meal, homework, and bedtime(s), etc.  Resorting to medication was at the bottom of the list, but is still used.  I think everything in concert has been the winning combination, since it is working so far.

Blindly ignoring your kids behavior, being negligent in imparting true morals and values to them at an early age  , and expecting them to have have good values and habits later on in life won't cut it.  You can't talk or medicate your children into a pattern  of responsibility that you've let them behave themselves into and subsequently pass it off as "He/she is just being a kid"  Children aren't born knowing how to act, and they don't learn by osmosis.  They learn from what they are taught, and by the examples set for them.

[Chairboy]

....yet your kids both seem to magically have the diagnosis and are (if I read the above correctly) also being medicated for it.  I hope you've taken adequate step to ensure that they actually DO need this diagnosis and aren't guilty of the same 'lowest hanging fruit' diagnosis you mentioned.

Your explanations above for things like the pilots license (you seem pretty comfortable in making the decision that your kids never learn to fly for them, nice) or your failure to read the followup info on the HR I posted.  Google 'adhd HR 2640' if you have the time, it's pretty obvious that your searching was pretty dang focused in a way that managed to surgically miss the WIDE SPREAD discussion about how ADHD sufferers are at risk of having their 2nd amendment rights stripped.

Unless, of course, you change your approach to "Well, we don't really need guns, so this isn't important" the way you did the medical exam for pilots license.  Weak.

[Neubob]

I thought that Blu Ray forever ended this particular controversy.

[VonMessa]

....yet your kids both seem to magically have the diagnosis and are (if I read the above correctly) also being medicated for it.  I hope you've taken adequate step to ensure that they actually DO need this diagnosis and aren't guilty of the same 'lowest hanging fruit' diagnosis you mentioned.

Your explanations above for things like the pilots license (you seem pretty comfortable in making the decision that your kids never learn to fly for them, nice) or your failure to read the followup info on the HR I posted.  Google 'adhd HR 2640' if you have the time, it's pretty obvious that your searching was pretty dang focused in a way that managed to surgically miss the WIDE SPREAD discussion about how ADHD sufferers are at risk of having their 2nd amendment rights stripped.

Unless, of course, you change your approach to "Well, we don't really need guns, so this isn't important" the way you did the medical exam for pilots license.  Weak.

Show me the wide spread discussion, please.  Quote it, cite, because I can't find it and I just want to see where it is so I can be prepared for my unforgivable choices that I've made.  Wide spread discussions do not hold much water in court.  Hard facts are usually the currency required.

As far as making choices for my children, you could not be more correct.  I am making all of their choices for them until they are of age.  If the worst thing they can't do later in life is fly an airplane, then I can live with it.

And yes, we do need firearms so that would be something which I would defend, but the medical exam for a pilots license continues to be vaguely unimportant to me.  The right to bear arms is singled out as one of my rights as an American citizen.   The right to fly an airplane is not.  If its a passion of yours, thats great, and I admire and welcome your opinion.  It is, however not one of my passions.   However, if they tried to repeal my right to brew in my own home, or play the drums because I have ADD, you might see me get a bit excited.

To google adhd hr 2604 only gives me info from last September.  Thankfully, the NRA stood up and made a fuss and that exact bill, in that incarnation did not pass when it was signed into law this January.

I didn't mean to start an all out argument, and I was genuinely surprised to hear it still being discussed for I thought it had already been resolved, which it has been.

I apologize if I may have offended you, for it was not my intent.

[Masherbrum]

Chairboy will post that BS again in a future thread.    Pay no mind to him when he does.   

[Gunthr]

A slight sidestep  if I may...

I'm confused as to whether there is a real diff btw ADD and ADHD, or whether the terms are interchangeable...

I read the proposed legislation above from Chairboy's link, but didn't see ADD or ADHD specifically mentioned, so what is the reasoning to allow us to say that the legislation applies to these diagnoses?

My ex-wife, who has complained for years that she has "chronic fatigue syndrome" recently convinced my 13 yr old's pediatrician that my daughter has ADD and my kid is now on Adderal.  Knowing my ex-wife, I think she  has a need to think my daughter is "gifted" and she was not happy that my kid was struggling to keep up in advanced classes.  I also think my ex wife also diverts some of the medicine to her own use - maybe a lot for all I know... but that is not relevant to this thread.  Its just that I'm not convinced about the need for meds, although my daughter IS getting straight A's in her regular classes after moving down from advanced.

I mentioned my concern to my ex-wife  about the diagnosis of ADHD as mentioned in this thread and she said, "Oh, she was diagnosed with ADD, not ADHD." 
 

[Chairboy]

VonMessa, it's 2640, not 2604.  If that's what you searched for, then I'm not surprised you didn't find it.  Masherbrum, your freedom to look down your nose at my points and my opinions are unassailable, and I admire your willingness to remain focused on something without letting the facts get in your way.

Gunthr, the legislation doesn't mention ADHD by name, but the definition it uses for 'mental defectives' (their words, not mine) is criminally broad and includes folks with ADHD diagnosis.  Google "adhd hr 2640" and you should find plenty of matches.  VonMessa, if you search for the correct term this time, you should have better luck.

[VonMessa]

VonMessa, it's 2640, not 2604.  If that's what you searched for, then I'm not surprised you didn't find it.  Masherbrum, your freedom to look down your nose at my points and my opinions are unassailable, and I admire your willingness to remain focused on something without letting the facts get in your way.

Gunthr, the legislation doesn't mention ADHD by name, but the definition it uses for 'mental defectives' (their words, not mine) is criminally broad and includes folks with ADHD diagnosis.  Google "adhd hr 2640" and you should find plenty of matches.  VonMessa, if you search for the correct term this time, you should have better luck.

I searched the correct one, I wrote the incorrect one in my reply.  The fact remains that the info is old, and the bill has already become law, minus the ominous ADD overtones.  God bless the NRA.

[superpug1]

interestingly enough, you cannot be eligible for an Air Force scholarship if you have ever been diagnosed with ADHD / ADD. you cant be a pilot in the air force. and its increadibly difficult to become an officer. one of my friends was just DQd from that process

[Simaril]

In answer to an earlier question:

ADD is "Attention Deficit Disorder." Think of the daydreamer staring out the window, a person who can't keep their mind on one thing long enough to get anything done.

ADHD is "Attention Deficit HYPERACTIVITY Disorder." Think of the kid who's constantly bouncing off the walls, doing impulsive things without thinking about anything.



At the core of the overdiagnosis problem -- ADD/ADHD are SYNDROMES, or collections of associated symptoms. They are NOT diagnoses in the same way that a heart attack is. So there's no definitive tests, and no way to effectively rule out the dozens of other things that can look just like them, can match the Woman's Day magazine quick questionnaire. Evem responding to ADD medicines doesn't mean the patient has the problem, cause those meds can help a variety of causes of dis tractability.

Other things can look just like ADD/ADHD. In my experience, most common is lack of appropriate home structure -- like Bodhi's ex said. Also, the things seen in ADD are extremes of normal phenomenon...we all can be distractable, or impulsive, or hard to regulate. Where to draw the line...not always easy.

[Gowan]

I searched the correct one, I wrote the incorrect one in my reply.  The fact remains that the info is old, and the bill has already become law, minus the ominous ADD overtones.  God bless the NRA.

wait, that meas i can have a gun?