Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.

[Arlo]

Once again, it's a shame you can't read.

I've said quite a lot in this thread that is directly on topic. I'll admit to wasting some time and electronic ink responding to your trolling. Pretty much everyone sees you for what you are Arlo. BTW just pointed it out again; you have nothing to add to the threads in which you participate.

I guess the only one not seeing it is you, of course.

Which makes it that much more entertaining. You're the person people laugh at, not with. 

You're putting more effort in whining that I don't play fair than you would have just repeating the supposed incontrovertable proof you could have if you did have. 

[Toad]

No whine, just an accurate observation. It's certainly not that you don't play fair; you don't play at all. You're not a contributor in any thread, you're a troll in all threads.

It's just past time that those that actually use the board to discuss acknowledge you for the troll you are and deal with you accordingly.

There are a lot of folks here that disagree on various topics; that's a good thing because it makes for lively discussion. The point is they do discuss. MT, RPM and others that I verbally joust with have sharp minds, an ability to organize their thoughts and articulate their positions. They are an enjoyable presence on this BBS and one of the reasons I read this BBS.

You, otoh hand, offer nothing to this community.

Have a nice day!

 

[midnight Target]

Quote the amazing parts.

Now this is a game of diminishing returns. I agree with one of my favorite pundits who said "A politician has spoken to the American people like they were adults." I could quote all kinds of passages that I think are amazing, of course you will just say.. not to you. I'm not expecting anything nearing consensus on this, but in my opinion Obama has done exactly the right thing.

Anyway, I've never been known to quit just because the outcome was in doubt...

I thought this part was particularly ground breaking:

In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience - as far as they're concerned, no one's handed them anything, they've built it from scratch. They've worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they're told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren't always expressed in polite company. But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation. Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends. Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.

Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze - a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many. And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns - this too widens the racial divide, and blocks the path to understanding.

[Arlo]

No whine, just an accurate observation. It's certainly not that you don't play fair; you don't play at all. You're not a contributor in any thread, you're a troll in all threads.

It's just past time that those that actually use the board to discuss acknowledge you for the troll you are and deal with you accordingly.

There are a lot of folks here that disagree on various topics; that's a good thing because it makes for lively discussion. The point is they do discuss. MT, RPM and others that I verbally joust with have sharp minds, an ability to organize their thoughts and articulate their positions. They are an enjoyable presence on this BBS and one of the reasons I read this BBS.

You, otoh hand, offer nothing to this community.

Have a nice day!

 

Whoa ... nothing to offer the whole community, whatsoever. Harsh overreaction, there. 

Does this mean you don't have anything better to add to win my conviction regarding whatever you've decided you're convinced of regarding this thread this particular moment? Cause I've got time.

[lazs2]

yep MT..  changing the hope...  there he is, the guy with all the new ideas sounding exactly like ted kennedy and all the other socialist democrats.. the worst of the liberal socialists.

you can boil his whole argument in that quote of yours to the same old tired liberal socialist class envy "its not your fault.. the rich man is keeping you down"

the so called white resentment is not from the rich man saying that one race gets preferential treatment over the other...  you simply can't paint it that way long and get away with it.. the rich are not the ones who are assaulting the whites at 7 times the rate whites assault them.. the rich aren't the ones who are on the tube rapping about the white devil.

the downplaying of black racism and hate against whites is not gonna work... class envy on the other hand does work to an extent but.. it is a pretty tired and worn card to play.  almost as worn as the race card but...

In the end.. that is all the democrats have.. that is their version of "hope" and "opportunity" it is blame and envy and racism.

lazs

[Toad]

 

It's nice that every time you post you validate my opinion of your worth to this BBS.

Another perfect example in a long line of them.

[Arlo]

In the end.. that is all the democrats have.. that is their version of "hope" and "opportunity" it is blame and envy and racism.

Hmmmm .... and what excuses are the Republicans using to do the same (now and for quite some time leading up to now)? If it's not thier version of "hope and opportunity" then what are they claiming to accomplish with the behavior you accuse the Democrats of displaying, citizen? Is this the point where we're all supposed to stand, cross our arms and yell bad stuff at the picture of Obama on the viewscreen?

[Arlo]

It's nice that every time you post you validate my opinion of your worth to this BBS.

Another perfect example in a long line of them.

I've never seen anyone on this forum require as much self-validation to hide behind to avoid the hot-spot before. Some have come close but you've taken the cake to date. So like I've wasted my time repeating  when you continue to try to creatively avoid an admission that you've run out of anything to convince me with (whether it's laziness, frustration of general confusion on how to effectively proceed that's stopping you) - seems you got nuthin'. Doesn't seem to bother me as much as you, however. Thanks for tryin'. If you want I'll give you an example of how to move on from here. 

[Toad]

I think it's indicative of your inflated feeling of self-worth that you think I've tried to convince you of anything. Although, to be fair, it could be that reading comprehension problem you have rearing its ugly head yet again.

You're not part of the discussions here; you're just background noise.

Someday, if you ever actually participate in a discussion, putting your ideas out there for all to see, maybe I'll change my opinion on that. I seriously doubt that will ever happen.

Trolls rarely change.

[Arlo]

I think it's indicative of your inflated feeling of self-worth that you think I've tried to convince you of anything.

You might wanna see to your definition of "contributing." Just sayin'. Ok, rant on cause I'm not seein' much else from you at this point. Let me know if that changes. Ta.

[BTW]

Well the part you quoted is classism plain and simple. Its a typical liberal speech expounding on the evils of capitalism. Its the Marxist rhetoric common in black Liberation Theology. I'm not a Marxist so perhaps thats why I don't see its greatness. The important question is how many Americans are Marxists and will that work for them?

[Arlo]

Well the part you quoted is classism plain and simple. Its a typical liberal speech expounding on the evils of capitalism. Its the Marxist rhetoric common in black Liberation Theology. I'm not a Marxist so perhaps thats why I don't see its greatness. The important question is how many Americans are Marxists and will that work for them?

Is this what you're reacting to regarding a snippet of Sen. Obama's speech as quoted by MT? :

"Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church? And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way

But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth - by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS."

Cause it seems a fair stretch to try to spin that into Marxism. Are you a Christian and familiar with the teachings of Christ? Do you consider Christ a Marxist (in spite of having formed the basis for the Christian faith long before Marx was born)? Senator Obama offered some insight on the rest of the man's character (his wreckless indiscretionary snippet from a sermon as illustrated by a mud campaign aimed at Obama aside), including service to others (including country) and dedication to the tenants of Christ. Marxism? Like I said, seems a pretty far stretch. Then again, it doesn't seem clear precisely who or what you're reponding to without a respondee or a quote. Just clarify, if you would. I'm sure there's a more accurate method we can agree on to pick apart and repiece the event, the man and the effect it's having on this presidential race. My assurances that this isn't some sort of "troll trick of non-contribution" as some may rattle off when rattled.  

[BTW]

No, Arlo, I don't consider Jesus a Marxist.

" There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. "-Galatians 3:28

I don't consider Jesus as a Marxist as he chose Mathew as on of his disciples.

This contradicts Black Liberation Theology:

"The definition of Jesus as black is crucial for christology if we truly believe in his continued presence today. Taking our clue from the historical Jesus who is pictured in the New Testament as the Oppressed One, what else, except blackness, could adequately tell us the meaning of his presence today? Any statement about Jesus today that fails to consider blackness as the decisive factor about his person is a denial of the New Testament message. The life, death, and resurrection of Jesus reveal that he is the man for others, disclosing to them what is necessary for their liberation from oppression. If this is true, then Jesus Christ must be black so that blacks can know that their liberation is his liberation. . "
-  A Black Theology of Liberation , James H. Cone.

Black Liberation Theology seems less humble than Luke (emphasis mine of course):
 "Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.' And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
Luke 18:9-14

Now I don't want to get in a Bible quoting contest, but you are trying to spin this into me calling Bible teachings, Marxist. What I'm saying is  Black Liberation Theology rewrites the Bible with a Marxist/class warfare agenda.

[BTW]

Arlo, after this episode, most people are going to know what Black Liberation Theology is. I'd bet two weeks ago, few non-black people ever heard about it. Now they are going have to decide if they're comfortable with it, and a potential President who subscribes to it. Its hard to get past the fact that its a very racist, very classist theology. I'm not comfortable with. People need to inform themselves and look into Black Liberation Theology and its roots. Obama knew that is what Wright was teaching for 20 years. Is he going to reject Black Liberation Theology? I doubt it, so people better understand what it is before they vote.

[JBA]

I find it interesting how many Racist Obama surrounds himself with

“We don't have slave masters, we got mayors," Meeks said then while preaching. "But they are still the same white people who are presiding over systems where black people are not able to be educated. You got some preachers that are house n------. You got some elected officials that are house n------. Rather than them try and break this up, they're gonna fight you to protect that white man.” -- Sen. Barack Obama's pledged superdelegate from Illinois, state senator James Meeks.

“Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. . . . Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.”....James Cohen

There is no denying, however, that a strand of radical black political theology influences Trinity. James Cone, the pioneer of black liberation theology, is a much-admired figure at Trinity. Cone told me that when he's asked where his theology is institutionally embodied, he always mentions Trinity. Cone's groundbreaking 1969 book Black Theology and Black Power announced: "The time has come for white America to be silent and listen to black people. . . . All white men are responsible for white oppression. . . . Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man 'the devil.'. . . Any advice from whites to blacks on how to deal with white oppression is automatically under suspicion as a clever device to further enslavement." Contending that the structures of a still-racist society need to be dismantled, Cone is impatient with claims that the race situation in America has improved. In a 2004 essay he wrote, "Black suffering is getting worse, not better. . . . White supremacy is so clever and evasive that we can hardly name it. It claims not to exist, even though black people are dying daily from its poison" (in Living Stones in the Household of God).....James Cohen


And how how many times  Obama has lied,

"I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial." -- Sen. Obama, March 2008.

"I never heard comments like these." -- Sen. Obama, also in March 2008

"Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes." -- Sen. Obama, ALSO in March 2008.

Obama whose campaign denied it ever had any meeting of any kind with Canadian officials, and certainly not to discuss NAFTA. When they were caught lying, Sen. Obama admitted a meeting, but denied they discussed NAFTA. When the memo of the meeting came out ("We discussed NAFTA"), the campaign simply stopped answering questions.

This is the same Sen. Obama who denied an inappropriate fiscal relationship with Tony Rezco, only to later admit that the notorious and allegedly criminal Chicago hack had directly intervened to help Sen. Obama buy a multi-million house.

The campaign had initially claimed Rezko-connected contributions were no more than $60,000, an amount the campaign donated to charity. Then the figure grew to around $86,000, and there were
additional revelations that put the amount at about $150,000. Obama's [new] $250,000 accounting was a substantial jump and clearly contradicted earlier campaign statements that Rezko was just one of "thousands of donors."