Perk the WiberlWind!!

[LTARGlok]

Love the WW. I don't even use it that much. I like seeing it kill countrymen just as much as I like seeing it kill enemies. Reason? The people it kills are low and slow hanging over a runway, doing nothing other than waiting for a plane to appear.

Just kill the VH. Then cleanup with bombs. If you want to attack a base, use bombs to kill the leftover gvs, then move onto vulching with your 20mm cannons on the magically appearing airplanes.  I mean seriously are people really that dense? Or is it just laziness? Or is it they are realizing they can't land kills unless it's against stationary targets, on the ground, that they don't even need to actually score a direct hit on to kill. Can you not adapt to a new situation? And it's not even that big of a change.

Thank you HTC for raising the bar. Tired of seeing scrubs who think they are awesome because they can vulch (prior to patch) with impunity. Please do not perk the WW.

Yours is probably the most eloquent and common sense post in this thread. ( at least as far as I have read at this point )

[LTARGlok]

needs to be perked, i cant even dive bomb fields without 90% chance of death from those things.

You need to release your bombs a little higher up, just like they did in WWII.

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[LTARGlok]

I told about majority of players who couldnt lead in osti anyway (me, for example).

So your lack of shooting skill ( and others who you claim are like you ) should be a factor? 

Buy a shotgun, and take up bird hunting or clay target shooting.   You will then quickly learn that in order to hit something flying in the air, you have to aim at where it is going, and not at it.

[LTARGlok]

And as for the distence thing i had ont of the LTAR squad take out two of me B24's and my Altitude was 7.5, wish I would of filmed it for you guys..

Cajunn

I have heard absolutely no one on our squad make such a fantastic claim.

The consensus that I have heard discussed among us is that its effective range in the game is about 1.5k

Read the earlier posts about the target tests that have been done with it.  It is pointless to shoot the Wirbel's guns at anything beyond 2k    You are virtually wasting ammo if you do.

[LTARGlok]

                            So having 20 airplanes flying up and down runways for 20 mins vulching is "balancing"? Thats about all the WW is good for anyways. Base defense against low flying aircraft. And in reality 20mm AA cannon was always very dangerous to low flying attack airplanes. Yes the Whirbel calls for a change in tactics but its hardly "unbalancing". Well, maybe for runway vulchers it is.

You are absolutely right on here with your remarks.

The Wirbelwind is bringing a little more balance and reality into the game, which apparently some folks cannot handle.

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[LTARGlok]

I get bracketed by a couple of folks whom I shant name at 2.5-3k well outside icon range of even their GV from me, and they are VERY close to hitting me (rounds missing me by inches) as well as any shot they fire inside 1.5k is instant kill, even at bad angles on highly-manuvering planes.

Like I said, I won't name names til the films are submitted to HTC. 

So what are you trying to imply by this?   That using a Wirbelwind is somehow cheating??

Gee Whiz, give us all here a break!

I am quite a good shot with a shotgun, so I know a thing or two about leading aerial targets.   I certainly don't get INSTANT 1.5k range kills with the Wirbel.  Not even if the plane is heading straight at me. 

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[LTARGlok]

If you have a problem with the wirby's then kill the damn VH.
Problem solved

No, No, No!!   Don't tell him that.     

It is already becoming far too common when our squad is online and up to strength, that when folks discover they are up against us, they immediately go after our VH's

Don't you realize how upsetting it is for LTAR's to not have a VH???   

Please don't do anything more to encourage this tactic.   

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[LTARGlok]

I think we should start to use more effective mission planning.
IIRC (I haven't looked) the mission planned allows for planes to take off at varying intervals and from different bases. We should start to see an SEAD strike of maybe three planes moving in a few minutes ahead of the rest of the mission to take out the VH and begin deacking before the bulk of the force arrives to vulch and take town down.

Man alive, all of this talk of using strategy and tactics!!   It is so much easier to play against mindless and disorganized opponents.

Are planning and tactics what this game is supposed to be about???   

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[LTARGlok]

The other thing, which is only slightly related, is the Vulch complaint... I personally don't see why people fuss.  I'm no fighter pilot, and as a result I've rarely been a part of a vulch, but I've been vulched many times and find it just an aspect of war.

Yes, but the reality of war was such that if you did that, field AA would often get you.   The Wirbel is simply making the game much more accurate and historically correct.

[E25280]

Out of his way, folks!!  He's going for the RECORD!!   

[LTARGlok]

If you perk it, then I don't know that the ENY has to be reduced.

As far as "What abuse?", it's the abuse when a VH pops and within 30 seconds, 6+ WW are spreading out onto the field.  (I actually counted 11 pop out in the 30 seconds it took me to line up the VH and drop my bombs during one base capture... I did get 3 kills though which was cool).   That's what I mean by abuse...

OMG Swatch, that is what you call "ABUSE"?

What you are witnessing is the "GUNS UP" command being given by the LTAR squad leader.   Everyone in the squad immediately drops what they are doing, and comes pouring out of the VH in a Flak just like a bunch of angry fire ants to defend the base.   Our SQUAD has been using this tactic for many, many years.   It is thus hardly anything at all new since the Wirbelwind came out.   Many other squads have adopted this tactic also.   So it is certainly not anything unique to our squad anymore either.

Are you trying to say that you consider organized squad play abuse??   Give us a break here.......

LTARglok
ADMITTED SWATCH ABUSER

[LTARGlok]

That is not abuse.  That is a typical LTAR-type defense of a field under vulch.  And, by the way, by typical I mean well before the wirbelwind when you had a choice between an Ostiwind and an M16. 

The only difference is that now people other than LTARs are willing to do it more regularly.  That isn't a bad thing.  It is what AA vehicles were put in the game for.

Alas, too many people are getting to know LTAR tactics, as the squad has been around so very long.

I was also amazed that he considered this to be abuse.   

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[BnZ]

Glok,
I agree with everything you say, but I DO have the attention span to read a single multi-point post instead of a handful of short ones.

[Masherbrum]

If you perk it, then I don't know that the ENY has to be reduced.

As far as "What abuse?", it's the abuse when a VH pops and within 30 seconds, 6+ WW are spreading out onto the field.  (I actually counted 11 pop out in the 30 seconds it took me to line up the VH and drop my bombs during one base capture... I did get 3 kills though which was cool).   That's what I mean by abuse...


And I just don't find a lot of substance in those three answers... they don't provide a good explenation of why the person feels it shouldn't be perked.  And I did look back and find many people say that its range should prevent the perking...and I can agree with that.  That's also a good explenation on why NOT to perk it.  I'm ok with that.

You are joking right?    What?    Just because you're in bombers or Jabo and participating in an "attempt at a capture" type mission, folks are BARRED from actually putting up a fight?   Perks or no perks, ENY or No ENY, I hope HTC leaves the WW AS IT IS.   

As Brauno stated, before the WW you had the Ostie and the M16.   I consider myself near the Top in the AA's.    I'm good enough to state it without having a "bragging tag" applied to it.   I always inform anyone over a field of my presence and they know that 9 times out of 10, I'm clearing them if they need help.    It's the other one "victory" I cannot get, that keeps me going.   

Hell, I've landed two 9 kill sorties in a FG and a 5 kill in one (in just the last two nights).   Why do I mention this?   Now more than ever, the attackers concentrate on the WW's and allow someone like myself to literally pick their attack apart.   

"Abuse"?!  Man, you need to re-evaluate on why you play this game.

[Swatch]

Look, I don't mean to keep this flame war going... I've said what I wanted to say and made my position on them known.  Anyway, the more important thing to me is the overall use of the perk system... I feel it can be expanded to many other planes without drastically hurting gameplay at different skill levels while promoting a wider use of all vehicles and development of greater piloting skills.  If you find everything else that I've said in this thread rubbish, please at least consider the positives of such a development in the perk system.

I look forward to flying and dying with all of you.

PS... I do have to ask LTARGlok though.... were all those posts really necessary?