Fun Fights Extinct?

[Tr1gg22]

I dont no? Been playin for 2 years and seems the same 2 me..Always been high pikers and always been furballers..Never had lots of good fights in MA...Had a few good 1 on 1s but usually if u saddle up 4 to long its boooooom!!!!Majority fly with squads so u no a member is not going 2 let u kill his buddy.Well actually ive had some really great fights latley in the MA...Just like 2 years ago when I started, but the diff is that im way better now so i generally win...Thats even better

[DoNKeY]

There is a great difference between not caring about winning or losing and lacking the desire to win. I always fight to win. However, that doesn't negate the fun I have even when I lose a good fight.

QFT again.

donkey

[mensa180]

...I was making the point that in order to have a decent fight (IMO), both opponents need to have a strong desire to win, and do everything in their power to do so.  They don't have to start out on equal footing necessarily, as long as they both give it thier best.  Personally, I prefer fights taht don't start out as purely equal, as IMO they're more interesting, for many of the same reasons I find fights between differing plane types more interesting...

And I agree, it's just that when I lose I don't mind.  Just because I'm not all up in arms about dying in a game doesn't mean I don't put the most into the fight.  If you're implying that I need to take this game more seriously in order to be a better "pilot", then I would have to disagree.

 My incentive to win is just for my own personal enjoyment.  I get a thrill out of killing the other guy, I also like becoming a better 38 stick.  Neither of these require me to go about my AH day without dying, so I don't.  And when I do, I don't get upset, just roll another plane.

[mtnman]

I agree with you there Mensa, it sounds like we have the same desire to win, for basically the same reasons.  But "desiring to win, but not being devastated when we lose" isn't the same as "I don't care whether I win or lose", which was my original point.

I truly had no intention of riling you, I just saw the words you used to describe your feelings and borrowed them as an example of a common argument.  From that post I could have gathered that you didn't care, now it's apparent that you do care, you're just adult enough to handle defeat when it occurs.  From that I'd expect you'd be a great opponent and / or teammate.

I often hear complaints from the "I don't care whether I win or lose" crowd when they lose (which would seem to be a contradiction).  Generally it has something to do with the fact that they got sent back to the tower in a way that wasn't pleasing to them.  If they really didn't care I wouldn't expect their complaints on the BBS or chnl 200 to be so common.

And I really don't have any problems with them doing / flying however they want.  I simply don't care what they do.  The constant stream of complaints from folks that fly into swarms of enemies, and then complain "I got ganged!" or who get low and slow under enemy planes and complain "I got picked!" gets awful old. 

I even heard complaints directed at me last night because I allowed a well-known and accomplished pilot to have a 1v1 with an enemy plane.  Heaven forbid!  Myself and two squadies were climbing out.  Saber was watching TV, I was reading a book, and I'm not sure what Crude was doing.  All on auto-climb, at about 8k.  Suddenly Saber swore, and exploded (he was higher than Crude and I).  The enemy Typhoon dove through and shot Crude as I rolled to the side, taking Crude's vertical stabilizer off and sending him into the ground.  I recovered and prepared to fight the Typhoon, only to see this well-known countryman already on his six, about 1.5 out.  Saber says " are you killing the "#@^%$" typhoon??"  I said "Nah, so and so's on him, and I don't want to gang the Typhoon".  I knew who the typhy probably was and out of respect for both pilots, I decided to stay out of it.  Well, the "friendly" screwed up, overshot, and got shot down.  I gave the typhy about 15 seconds to look around and prepare for me, and then went in from about 5k out.  Immediately on chnl 200 as well as on country channel comes a spew of verbal diarhea from my countryman about the running chicken-chit hogs, and comments to the typhy pilot regarding the chicken-chit hog pilots (2 of 3 were shot down already...) who left him high and dry.

How do you win?  Had I pressed an attack on the typhoon, I'd have been accused of ganging or ruining a good 1v1 (and I would have agreed).  By allowing a "fair" fight, I was a chicken abandoning a countryman (who started in an angles-advantaged state).  Had I not dove in on my opponent after he killed the friendly, I'd have been a chicken, running from a lower enemy.  By killing him I was a "picker". (To his credit he didn't utter a complaint, although many would have).

Danged if you do, danged if you don't!  Anybody else sick of the whining?

[mtnman]

Just for giggles I checked our scores.  We've flown about the same hours and have about the same kills.  I have a lot more deaths.  We have the same kills per hour as well.

90 percent of your kills are in an F4U4
90 percent of mine are in a P38G

We clearly have our fun in different ways

Yup, this month I sure have a lot of F4U-4 kills.  My "normal" ride is the F4U-1A or -1D, but this month I was playing the "lets see how many kills I can get before I lose a plane" game, and have been flying against massive swarms with no wingmen and very few friendlies apart from last night.  The last 3 nights I've played have been fights all by myself or with very few friendlies against full dar-bars of enemy planes.  I chose the -4 for obvious reasons, considering the majority of the time it was "many on 1" scenarios.  Perk-plane or not, those were some very exciting fights.  I think you'd be surprised how similar our fights are, apart from you being in the 38 and me in the hog.  I haven't had many hops in the last few years that didn't see me low, slow, and covered with bad guys at some point.  I'm not verbal when I lose, but that doesn't mean I don't get down and dirty.

Having flown beside you in several furballs, I dont think "We clearly have our fun in different ways "  Our idea of fun looks to be very similar.

My complaint isn't against the flight style / choices that people make, it's against the whining resulting from those choices.

[mtnman]

And maybe it's just an advertising error.  It seems the complaints are made in an effort to get more people to get low and slow and not be afraid of losing.  The problem is that with all the whining it appears that those that get low and slow aren't having any fun (why would they whine if they were having fun??).

That's hardly a way to convince others that it's the best way to have a good time...

[moot]

I think this is where I post film of WMLute losing the last fight in a KOTH round, "whining" about the fight being boring because he lost all his E and is getting BNZ'd into the sea for as long as possible (on purpose, admitedly).
Would that be obvious enough an example mtnman?

[DrDea]

 Wasnt fun when you wacked my arse in the da m00t ya fargin Icehole you.

[moot]

 " "  

[mtnman]

I think this is where I post film of WMLute losing the last fight in a KOTH round, "whining" about the fight being boring because he lost all his E and is getting BNZ'd into the sea for as long as possible (on purpose, admitedly).
Would that be obvious enough an example mtnman?

Hehe!  A form of torture isn't it?  Make him pay for his mistake for a prolonged period instead of getting it over quickly!  Hehe, I love it.  I've enjoyed my fights with WMLute (even the ones he's won), but I still think that's a funny story!

I'm not going to give out the names involved in my incident.  Believe it or not I still respect those involved and have no desire to drag them down over something that was said in the heat of the moment.  The typhy pilot never said a bad word to me all night, and we actually had friendly comments for each other on 200 so it's not like he was to blame at all.  Sadly, this is not my first time being griped at for allowing a skilled pilot to finish a fight 1v1 when I thought it looked "fair".  My general policy in a situation like that is to loiter and "supervise", only jumping in when another opponent tries to jump in and make it a 2v1 or pick my countryman.  In my effort to allow pilots to have a 1v1 apparently I can irk some folks.  It's not uncommon to be called "timid" by the opposing pilot, since he can't see that I'm actually giving him an opportunity to finish his fight 1v1 and prepare for me.  That's OK, but I'm shocked when I hear it from my own teammates.

[moot]

It's not about dragging people down mtnman, it's about the quality of "air combat" in our fav game.  It does the game no good to have so many (the vast majority, I think) players be so timid and know so little about SA, ACM, etc.  In the most extreme cases you've got players bailing on sight, gaming the game to the extreme... That's not what air combat is about!
The Training Corps can only process and influence so many players, but the basics it teaches are nonetheless a vital factor (if not the one and effectively only, I think) in the quality of dogfighting in AH. 

I appreciate the comedy in holding Lute over the fire longer than required to get the kill, but it's really not fun. As funny as it is and as much as I love comedy myself, it's an example of very un-fun gameplay - it's a nearly perfect illustration of spoiling an opportunity for an all out suspense-full fight into a very boring time in front of your computer monitor.  It's not that "BnZ" should be forbidden, it's that players ought to have a sense of "fighting" balanced with that innate sense of fun.  This is a game, not war.

It's not uncommon to be called "timid" by the opposing pilot, since he can't see that I'm actually giving him an opportunity to finish his fight 1v1 and prepare for me. 

This is the fair way to do it.  That's the way it ought to be done.

As for teammates, if you've switched countries more times than you could keep count like a lot of us have, you know that there's more mutual understanding between specific types of players than inside some arbitrary chess piece.

[Simaril]

Good fights aren't gone!

Far from a skilled 1v1 man, I still love the adrenaline and sport of an even fight. Tonite north of a horde was climbing in a K4, and ran into a G2. Had a very nice combat till I went over the edge, lost angles in recovering, and had to run with a lost airelon. Went on 200 with a <S> for the unknown pilot, "great fun -- lost airelon, had to go" -- and found out it was daDonkey.

Next thing I know we're meeting up between 2 abandoned bases for a series of dogfights. They were tightly fought, and I think the only time I got a "kill" was when he cut it too close and collided with me. But I had fun, hopefully learning a bit along the way.

As far as I can see, good fights are out there...

[DoNKeY]

Good fights aren't gone!

Far from a skilled 1v1 man, I still love the adrenaline and sport of an even fight. Tonite north of a horde was climbing in a K4, and ran into a P-38. Had a very nice combat till I went over the edge, lost angles in recovering, and had to run with a lost airelon. Went on 200 with a <S> for the unknown pilot, "great fun -- lost airelon, had to go" -- and found out it was daDonkey.

Next thing I know we're meeting up between 2 abandoned bases for a series of dogfights. They were tightly fought, and I think the only time I got a "kill" was when he cut it too close and collided with me. But I had fun, hopefully learning a bit along the way.

As far as I can see, good fights are out there...

  Shhh.

hehe, In all seriousness, it was fun, and I enjoyed it a lot and the fact that we could enjoy a nice close 1v1.  Was glad to see those two new bases we picked to meet between were really close together, with no dars at all.  The last one was a really good one too; can't wait till I can review the film.

donkey

[CAP1]

I know that there has always been BnZers, HO'er, Gangers, etc, but there was a time when I could log on and almost be certain of atleast 1-2 good fun fights. Recently, of course it has been happening even earlier than now, I have noticed that every fight has one side all at 10K+ and the other side below 5K being BnZ'd the entire time. Where has all the good fights gone? You can find a good fight sometimes (maybe once every month?!), but now it's just 109s, 190, La's, Spits, P51's, and the occassional TYPH/TEMP just BnZing then Running or 6 guys diving on 1 guy. It's gotten to the point where I reversed a Spitfire and watched him dive and run to the nearest ack, which was OUR ack! Heck, I've seen a Zeke BnZing from 25K a few days ago! Even the DA has a few "gang up on one guy" moments.

I did not intend for this to be a "whine", I just want to know if there is anyone left who will actually fight 1-on-1??

ok...so here's tonight's fun fights..... i see A24 getting pounded, but cons a ways off......so i up a hellkitty. get jumped by a hi spit/109 combo, but manage to evade....i let my sa down, and suddenlyi'm in the tower....someone told me it was the 190 that came in faster than an SR71.  i re-up in my kitty......see a ju87-friendly and ask the friendly if he wants help or for me to stay out....no answer, so i go in, and kill the stuka.....it's storch..you all know what came next......i land that run as i'm low fuel, and re-up my kitty.....and am promptly shot down as soon as i'm clear the ack. i re-up in zeke......same result. no prob, i launch from base 30 or so miles away, and grab. level at 10-12k, thinkin i;m high enough.....not so....find a 190, 109, spit and zeke all higher. i dodge the 190's pass, then an f4u comes in......now it's 5-1....the corsair lights me up, and PW's me.....i keep trying to turn, and blackout. ok...now time to land......i make one attempt, and dodge a vulhc attempt. make the next attempt and get vulched just as i come to a stop.(wanna guess who?) i re-up the zeke and climb out to 14k this time. find 2 hurri2's co-alt, and engage....kill one, then the other tears me apart(this fight was fun, although VERY quick...<<S>>oldman, and stickpig). so now all i find after these are runners, and base porkers......oo...and a lone p38 attacking my ju's<<S>>corbia....was nice attacks......this is all in MW......and i noticed a lot of the names i saw on the roster were guys normally found in LW arenas......and THEY were all the alt monkeys tonight.  seriously..hwat does it take to just find a nice low fight these days? i mean these are only cartoon airplanes afterall. ooo..and lest i forget, wanna gues who i had to listne to a rash of BS from? he talks constantly about how great he is and how much the rest of us suck and have no talent, but yet, when asked..and nicely i might add....he absolutley refuses to offer any help on improving. so here he is one of the complainers of no good fights, but when given the chance to improve them by teaching some of those of us lesser skilled, he refuses. stupid, childish mentality from an old guy in my opinion.

anyway, that's my rant for the night
<<S>>

[valdals]

fighting at high altitude does not work with the types of planes i fly. i like to slug it out on deck. if i encounter i high con i will avoid him. survival is paramont in warfare.