Dueling arena

[Saurdaukar]

F3 mode = glass cockpit.  How is it not obvious what the advantages are?

...is that enabled in the entire DA?  Even for 1v1's? 

Wow have I been at a disadvantage this whole time.

[mechanic]

i was talking about the furball section. i dont even want to believe that someone would secretly use f3 in a 1 on 1.

[Saurdaukar]

i was talking about the furball section. i dont even want to believe that someone would secretly use f3 in a 1 on 1.

No way to prove that he did?

I'd bet you that the percentage rate is close to 100% of those who even knew WTF F3 did.

Kinda pisses me off.  Explains some of the high deflection snapshots in past duels that made me wonder whether or not I was fighting a psychic.   

[Bronk]

  Now that was not called for...

I try to be nice and get insulted..tsk, tsk.  Being the Gentleman that I am, precludes me from telling you what I really think....on second thought... "get your Dunce Cap, and sit in the corner for the rest of the day.   One more thing..your spelling is suspect".

See stir pot comment.

[moot]

But no gunsight which means that you are going to be doing more guessing (spray-n-praying). This is not necessarily easier to fight in F3 mode but I do agree with the argument that it is easier to set up your attack in F3 mode. But the execution of the attack is not easier in F3 mode. As a matter of fact I find it harder in F3. When I first started I was in H2H and I would use the F3 to orient myself and waas a great learning tool but now I don't even bother because I can get the mental image and only very rare occasions will I use F3 and that is only to make it easier to spot con when dualing but once I have visual I go back to cockpit view and leave it there.

Just wondering if those of you who complain that F3 is easier than cockpit view have ever tried to fight and kill opponent in F3 mode?

There is a gunsight and yes, glass cockpit is an advantage once you learn to use it.

[dentin]

i was talking about the furball section. i dont even want to believe that someone would secretly use f3 in a 1 on 1.

Awww, go ahead, believe and you will be set free. 

[dentin]

See stir pot comment.

Pfftt..whatever that means.   Think I'll goto the DA and try "F-3"..maybe I can get my name in lights, and make a few friends.    AND to stay on topic..I still advocate leaving things as they are..Viva LA "F-3" or not. 

[Widewing]

Just wondering if those of you who complain that F3 is easier than cockpit view have ever tried to fight and kill opponent in F3 mode?

While I'm not complaining, I can kill very efficiently from the F3 position, especially on deflection shots. I don't complain about F3 being enabled as it's enabled for everyone. Would it be more of a challenge if it were not? Maybe, maybe not. Again, all things are equal.

I've dueled with many of the best in the game and when I reviewed the films, every one of them used F3 to sneak a peak here and there. Doesn't bother me a bit, they're just utilizing what is available, certain that the other guy is too.

My regards,

Widewing

[dentin]

Seems like a clear enough train of thought:

Can't argue that logic...I give up...you win.

[dkff49]

There is a gunsight and yes, glass cockpit is an advantage once you learn to use it.

Explain this gunsight because I have never seen a gunsight in F3 mode. You also haven't answered my question about actually even trying to see if you could do better with F3 than without. I feel that until you do at least try it out, it is not right for you to say that these guys are actually using an advantage. Back when I first started out in H2H and not understanding a lot of the unwritten rules I tried to fight in F3 and foudn this to be very difficult to actually fight. However I did find it to be helpful in finding the fight in the beginning. The only advantage I can see F3 giving is allowing you to make an attack plan since it allows you to see the area around you and not to have to create the mental image. This does not bother me if some use this. I do not anymore since I have become more able to create that mental image but I did in the beginning as I was learning.

I really think that a lot of these situations that you believe someone is using the F3 as tool to get better shots off is probably more luck on the part of the shooter since a lot of these newer guys spray and pray more than most. Perception is usually the leading cause of mislead accusations.

None of this intended to insult or be demeaning in anyway. Just one man's opinion and experience (not that i have a lot of experience in game but enough to have an opinion).

additiional note since Widewing entered his in while I was typing:

Widewing you are a very efficient killer anyway. I was simply trying to say that most likely those that do kill in F3 mode most likely can make kills in cockpit as well and probably just as good as the kills made in F3 mode. I have tried doing this in offline before and could not even come close using F3 as I could in cockpit not even when I first started playing. I have no doubt that there those people that can make kills in F3 mode but I would venture to say it takes every bit as much practice to that as it does to learn how to do it in cockpit. F3's biggest advantage is in the SA department more so than making impossible shots (IMHO). I know you said that can kill very efficiently in F3 mode but would you say that it is easier in F3 mode than in cockpit. Would actually like to know since this is coming from someone respected in community and also has used F3 for sneaking peak and killing. Thanks Widewing

[Tr1gg22]

You really don't know what you're talking about....

As for the F3 issue, as I wrote in Uptown's thread: if you can't fly from inside your cockpit, go play some other game. IT IS easier, Dentin, it gives you instantly the 3D image of the fight that you have to build in your own mind when you fly inside the cockpit.

For everyone who's interested in having a 1 vs 1 in DA, check out the roster and ask to Kennel members, they're always up fro a duel.

  i no exactly what im talkin about  

[sax]

While I'm not complaining, I can kill very efficiently from the F3 position, especially on deflection shots. I don't complain about F3 being enabled as it's enabled for everyone. Would it be more of a challenge if it were not? Maybe, maybe not. Again, all things are equal.

I've dueled with many of the best in the game and when I reviewed the films, every one of them used F3 to sneak a peak here and there. Doesn't bother me a bit, they're just utilizing what is available, certain that the other guy is too.

My regards,

Widewing

In your opinion does F3 help anyone learn .
I see using the DA the same as MA , why fly F3 when it's not in the Main .
I could be wrong , would like your thots .

[crockett]

Explain this gunsight because I have never seen a gunsight in F3 mode.

All they have to do is put a small dot on the monitor while in the cockpit view. Then they can simply use that dot to aim with while in F3. It's totally lame but that's what thse dweebs do. Oh and you can totally own people in F3 because I've done in in Il2's in the MA. You can do 1k shots pretty easy in F3.

It's lame and should be turned off IMO.

[Xargos]

There was never a need for the F-3 mode in the DA before the former freeloaders arrived.

[dkff49]

I understand that but whenever I go to F3 view I have the plane in my way does this "dot" still remain at your guns convergence when you move your view up or to one side. I never tried this and to tell the truth never even thought of it. However I do not see how even this would make it easier to win a fight. It may be possible to send someone back to the tower while in F3 but since you say that you owned people in an IL2 in F3 mode would you say that you could not have done it while in the cockpit view. What I am saying is that once you have that mental image in your mind of your surrondings and become accustomed to acquiring it then it is no harder to fly in cockpit than in F3. I myself have had a harder time getting accustomed to fighting in F3 than I did in cockpit. Maybe it is just a personal preference issue than a right and wrong thing. For me I think it is harder to fight in F3 than in cockpit. I will admit that SA can be improved in F3 but the tactics do not change just because you are in F3. E states remain the same ACM remain the same and an inappropriate move will get you back in the tower just as fast in F3 as it does in cockpit. Not that the DA is the proper place to learn but I think using the F3 in my earliest days did help in learning how to interpret what is seen on monitor and did help in being able to acquire that mental image. Eventually I did stop using the F3 and the only reason I still use it DA at all is to see where the enemy is at a quick glance and once I have my opponent at the point where I can see his black dot on monitor (not even in icon range I will switch to cockpit view for the fight. The only reason I use it for that is there is more going on in my house than just this game and F3 allows me to tend to different things within the home (ie. my 8 year old and beverage aquiring) while looking for opponent. I do this whether in furball area or 1vs1. But hey even those that are better in F3 than in cockpit can be pushed into dumb situations and make mistakes too. Just one more thing for you to learn to defend against.