Author Topic: D9 v. La7 Duel  (Read 4074 times)

Offline Urchin

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Re: D9 v. La7 Duel
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2008, 03:59:25 AM »
Well, since my name was taken in vain and all...   

I watched it.  Sure, it was boring.  Against anyone armed with even a tenth of a clue, a fight that wasn't that boring would be incredibly short and would end with one dead D-9.  Even then, had our intredpid film maker missed his shot, he would have been forced to disengage (or die) because he would no longer have a significant energy advantage over the La-7.

Is it possible to "fight" in a 190?  Sure, it is possible.  Is it a feasible way to get kills and play without getting horribly frustrated?  No, not for me at least.

Moot is an incredible pilot.  He (for whatever reason) loves the Ta-152 - a plane that I've always despised.  I used to be a pretty good stick, now.. not so much.  Even now, you could put Moot in a 152 and me in probably 90% of the planeset and he wouldn't have a shot in hell of killing me except by bore n zoom because the plane simply sucks.  And it is the best of the 190s (except for possibly the A-5, which is the one I prefer).

An amazing pilot can only take an awful plane so far.  I used to enjoy fighting in the 190A5.  When I used to enjoy fighting in it, it could turn something like 25-30% better than it does now (find Widewings post comparing AH1 and AH2 turning circles).  The way it is now, the A5 is a flying brick, and it is the most agile of the 190s.  You can only give away so many kills to folks before you decide that playing with both arms and a leg taped behind your back is just too much of a handicap.

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: D9 v. La7 Duel
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2008, 08:55:18 AM »
Well, since my name was taken in vain and all... 

I didn't take your name in vain.  I complimented you.  Even at your worst your better than the vast majority.

BTW, I'd like to go to the DA with you again sometime if you're up for it.
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline Urchin

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Re: D9 v. La7 Duel
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2008, 09:16:59 AM »
No, not you.  Was actually referring to Slapshot saying (more or less) "OMG, Urchin et al. could have done waaaaaaay better than that!".  It just isn't true. 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not going to kill anyone who doesn't make several gross mistakes if I am in a 190 and they are in practically anything, in a 'fair fight'.

I can put up a decent fight, for a bit... but the outcome is never really in doubt. 

Offline BnZ

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Re: D9 v. La7 Duel
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2008, 09:35:08 AM »
Wow Urchin, when a pilot of your reputation says that, makes me feel like I've been wasting my time... :D

I think its okay though, because you can generally find a few pilots willing to make some gross mistakes, and leave the ones who don't far behind.

I would fly my Spit8 instead of the Dora in the MA, but I find the "death by horde" problem I run into in a slower plane is 10 times more annoying than the "miss by virtue of lousy turn radius" problem in the D9

<S>

Offline SlapShot

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Re: D9 v. La7 Duel
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2008, 10:45:04 AM »
No, not you.  Was actually referring to Slapshot saying (more or less) "OMG, Urchin et al. could have done waaaaaaay better than that!".  It just isn't true. 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not going to kill anyone who doesn't make several gross mistakes if I am in a 190 and they are in practically anything, in a 'fair fight'.

I can put up a decent fight, for a bit... but the outcome is never really in doubt. 

Well ... you can maybe fool the rest of them ... but I know better ...  ;)
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Offline FX1

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Re: D9 v. La7 Duel
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2008, 04:39:37 PM »
Lame! Let shawk show you some good moves.

Offline Yenny

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Re: D9 v. La7 Duel
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2008, 10:35:03 PM »
Lame! Let shawk show you some good moves.

I dunno if shawk fly dora ^_^
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Offline FX1

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Re: D9 v. La7 Duel
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2008, 12:24:25 PM »
Shawk has been flying the d9 for almost 10 years. Its not his main ride today but that can change. Back about 3 years ago shawk made one hell of a run. In one camp he had 186 kills no death no ditches and a very hight kills a hour in the d9.

Offline Bosco123

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Re: D9 v. La7 Duel
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2008, 02:05:39 PM »
Personally, since I fly the 190's a whole lot, I can kill LAs with A8's if you can get him in the right postion. Usualy, you get the typical Lgay that comes in and tries to HO and do a flat turn. what I do, I pull straight up and barrel roll over. usualy I clean shot stright through the cockpit and hes dead.
I did TnB with a LGay in a D9 and that fight too, I acually had it filmed and deleted the file.
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Offline Bosco123

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Re: D9 v. La7 Duel
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2008, 05:35:37 PM »
heres me against an LA5 in a D9 on the deck:

http://www.speedyshare.com/229842755.html
Skifurd AKA "Bosco"
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: D9 v. La7 Duel
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2008, 05:53:08 PM »
heres me against an LA5 in a D9 on the deck:

http://www.speedyshare.com/229842755.html


Well I guess that film proves your willing to die in a dora    :devil

Offline Bosco123

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Re: D9 v. La7 Duel
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2008, 07:34:03 AM »

Well I guess that film proves your willing to die in a dora    :devil
I knew that I was going to die fast, the other guy, Cmsutard, has a little experience, by far he was much: faster, had a better climb rate and turn radius. The only thing that I could have done was to use my roll radius and I didn't utilize that at all.
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Offline Widewing

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Re: D9 v. La7 Duel
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2008, 09:23:39 AM »
I knew that I was going to die fast, the other guy, Cmsutard, has a little experience, by far he was much: faster, had a better climb rate and turn radius. The only thing that I could have done was to use my roll radius and I didn't utilize that at all.

Well, you guys were flying from a 5k field. Cmustard was flying an La-5FN which is not faster than the Dora at any altitude. At 6k, you have at least a 15 mph advantage. Climb is nearly equal at 6k, and the Dora is equal or better above 7k.

What you should have done was carry more speed than he could manage into the merge. You were not using WEP to build speed. Use WEP to take off, and leave it on. You could have had nearly 400 mph before the merge. Don't immediately reverse off the merge, but extend about 1.0k to 1.5k and convert into the vertical. Cmustard blew most of his E on the reverse. You would have the advantage of altitude and E, then you can fight your Dora to its strengths. From here on, killing Cmustard would be easy as long as you maintain the tactical advantage. Drag him higher, bleed every bit of E out of his fighter, than drop in and kill it.

If you allow E states to equalize, the La-5FN will eat the Dora for lunch.

It's like that classic complaint and response:

"Hey Doctor, it hurts when I do this."

"Well then, don't do that!"


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline reeb

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Re: D9 v. La7 Duel
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2008, 10:54:35 AM »
wow what a waste of time, why even post this film? you hopin someone will say wow your awesome!? unless there is something to be learned from a "dueling film" its just stupid to post it. or are you hoping a real skilled pilot will give you some insight on how to fly the 190? even noobs can bnz. if you extend"run" over 2k in a duel its not really a duel its another boring MA noob thinkin he is good. What were you hopin to gain from posting this borning film? and another thing films belong in films and screenshots section not here.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 11:07:39 AM by reeb »

Offline Yenny

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Re: D9 v. La7 Duel
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2008, 03:05:17 PM »
wow what a waste of time, why even post this film? you hopin someone will say wow your awesome!? unless there is something to be learned from a "dueling film" its just stupid to post it. or are you hoping a real skilled pilot will give you some insight on how to fly the 190? even noobs can bnz. if you extend"run" over 2k in a duel its not really a duel its another boring MA noob thinkin he is good. What were you hopin to gain from posting this borning film? and another thing films belong in films and screenshots section not here.

Only reason I put it into the training section is because a lot of people like myself actually wants to see how a 190D take an La-7. There are A LOT of people claiming they could outturn an La-7 in a D9, but which I have yet to accomplish. My point for posting it in the training section is just to show another method of taking an La-7 (flown by a good player). I still want to see other D9 taking 1 vs 1 against an La-7 at same E and out turn it like they claim.

There was a discussion about this a while ago in the forum, where some of these high speed aces "claiming" they can take down La-7 and spits in a turn fight w/ a d9. Yet, when some of us "dweeb" ask them how it's done and ask them to film it and show it to us. They said "no you guys find that out for yourself." Which is why I film some of these D9 v. spit and La-7 duels to show other D9 pilots how it could be done.

Keep in mind going against a novice pilot in any plane is easy, but when you're going against a good stick in any plane it would be a tough fight. If you guys keep pushing on talking smack, I'd like to see your film on how it's done D9 v. la-7, spit etc. in a duel vs some good stick and post it. It's easy to talk smack, but gotta post something to back your trash up. Again, I post this vid for reason to help other; not for "hopin someone will say wow your awesome!?" like you said reeb.

And by the way, the fight in this vid never extended beyond 2k, the 1st merge extend was about 1.5k. After that the La-7 was about 600 yards behind the D9 w/ gun ON the D9, but not through the D9 so the La-7 couldn't fire. It wasn't a BnZ, but it was a Spiral climbs more of an E fight then a BnZ.

Well, you guys were flying from a 5k field. Cmustard was flying an La-5FN which is not faster than the Dora at any altitude. At 6k, you have at least a 15 mph advantage. Climb is nearly equal at 6k, and the Dora is equal or better above 7k.

What you should have done was carry more speed than he could manage into the merge. You were not using WEP to build speed. Use WEP to take off, and leave it on. You could have had nearly 400 mph before the merge. Don't immediately reverse off the merge, but extend about 1.0k to 1.5k and convert into the vertical. Cmustard blew most of his E on the reverse. You would have the advantage of altitude and E, then you can fight your Dora to its strengths. From here on, killing Cmustard would be easy as long as you maintain the tactical advantage. Drag him higher, bleed every bit of E out of his fighter, than drop in and kill it.

If you allow E states to equalize, the La-5FN will eat the Dora for lunch.

It's like that classic complaint and response:

"Hey Doctor, it hurts when I do this."

"Well then, don't do that!"


My regards,

Widewing


This is basically what I did in that fight, it kinda follows what Widewing post.

After the 1st merge I pull my joystick lightly to go verticle, while the LA-7 pulled his stick hardback going vertical and pointing his nose at my plane. When the La-7 did that he bled some of his E which allow my D9 to have a higher E state of the bat. Once we reached 10k, my D9 got the climbing advantage plus the lost of E on the 1st merge, I baited the La-7 into a spiral climbs.  As one can see the La-7 always has his gun sight at the D9 from about 600 yards out for about 30 secs as both plane spiral climbs. So I guess the La-7 must have thinking "oh i almost got it just a lil harder on the joystick and he'd be dead." Both plane were doing bout 80 knots nose up within 400-600 yards away. I did the spiral climbs because if I went straight up then the La-7 would have a shot, the spiral climbs prevent the La-7 to put his gun through my plane and make the La-7 think he has the shot so he can remain in the spiral climb.
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Noobing since tour 96
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